Lap child

Old Oct 12, 19, 12:03 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by CDTraveler View Post
At least in the US that's not correct. Medical personal are mandatory reporters, meaning if there is anything suspicious about a child's injuries, police must be called and medical staff works with them to collect and evaluate evidence which can be presented in court. That's a lot more than trying "to whip up a frenzy." I speak as one who has completed mandatory reporter training and assisted in evidence collection.
What I said is entirely correct about the US.

In the US, hospitals and other non-state actors having mandatory reporter status for some kinds of incidents is not the same thing as hospitals and others with such status having standing to make legal charges on behalf of the state against any individuals when it comes to depriving people of legal rights of any sort, including those of the individuals whom it comes across or of those with custody of such individuals those non-state actors encounter.

Those with mandatory reporter status of sort can do the same thing as random people off the street: try to whip people into a frenzy over lap children on planes and prompt an investigation by authorities with applicable statutory authority to make legal charges: report, whether itís mandatory or not. And about reporting people for traveling with lap children on planes, where is even one legal case where such a report was the reason for the custodial parent(s) to be deprived of custody of the child by the state in any part of the US? There is no such case in the US as far as I know, and I had it looked into last time BeatCal was beating that horse here and returned to continue this.

Last edited by GUWonder; Oct 12, 19 at 12:10 pm
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Old Dec 10, 19, 7:52 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by zoned_post_meridiem View Post
I don't know where I read this, but there's also a related safety reason. Driving, even with proper car seats, is still more dangerous by magnitudes than flying with an un-belted lap infant. If someone were to choose a long drive over a flight because they'd have to pay for a separate child seat, the child would be at increased risk, despite the fact that flying as a lap infant is *quite* dangerous.

But I agree with the basic premise: if at all financially possible, get a seat for the child, and bring a basic car seat along. We think that we can hold on to them during turbulence, but the reality is that we can't always.
The trauma statistics disagree with you. An injury infant properly seated in the middle of the back row is practically unheard of!
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Old Dec 10, 19, 8:42 pm
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Originally Posted by knownothing View Post
The trauma statistics disagree with you. An injury infant properly seated in the middle of the back row is practically unheard of!
Maybe, though I'd need to see these comparative statistics to be convinced -- I honestly don't know how old the info is I based my comment on. I haven't done any recent research on it, because my kids always sat in their own carseats on planes.
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Old Dec 10, 19, 9:30 pm
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All I can say is that all this U2 talk just makes me think of The Edge and boys on tour in Asia now!!

and how freaky about projectiling babies. Eek.
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Old Dec 11, 19, 8:35 am
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Zoned, Actually the most common injury for lap kids are burns. The FA passing a hot cup of coffee over the person holding the child and child hits arm
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Old Dec 15, 19, 9:34 am
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Originally Posted by zoned_post_meridiem View Post
Maybe, though I'd need to see these comparative statistics to be convinced -- I honestly don't know how old the info is I based my comment on. I haven't done any recent research on it, because my kids always sat in their own carseats on planes.
Even infants in rear facing car seats properly used in the back row donít spare all such kids from injuries in bad car accidents. Objects In cars do fly, and also various debris shrapnel and burn injuries happen at times to such children strapped in properly in properly used car seats ó which also means having the children in snug clothes instead of say winter jackets when buckled into those seats.
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Old Dec 15, 19, 3:16 pm
  #22  
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Kids in middle of back seat are safe unless the car is really totaled. Protected by much metal. Data is their, but talk to ambulance driver.. Glad your kids did car seats. burns do happen but the stats say they happen most to lap kids when coffee is passed over them
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Old Dec 15, 19, 3:33 pm
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Originally Posted by knownothing View Post
Kids in middle of back seat are safe unless the car is really totaled. Protected by much metal. Data is their, but talk to ambulance driver.. Glad your kids did car seats. burns do happen but the stats say they happen most to lap kids when coffee is passed over them
I don't even get coffee when I fly by myself because I fear scalding myself. Unless they offer espresso.
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Old Dec 18, 19, 1:18 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
What I said is entirely correct about the US.

In the US, hospitals and other non-state actors having mandatory reporter status for some kinds of incidents is not the same thing as hospitals and others with such status having standing to make legal charges on behalf of the state against any individuals when it comes to depriving people of legal rights of any sort, including those of the individuals whom it comes across or of those with custody of such individuals those non-state actors encounter.

Those with mandatory reporter status of sort can do the same thing as random people off the street: try to whip people into a frenzy over lap children on planes and prompt an investigation by authorities with applicable statutory authority to make legal charges: report, whether itís mandatory or not. And about reporting people for traveling with lap children on planes, where is even one legal case where such a report was the reason for the custodial parent(s) to be deprived of custody of the child by the state in any part of the US? There is no such case in the US as far as I know, and I had it looked into last time BeatCal was beating that horse here and returned to continue this.
Reread your own comment:
Originally Posted by GUWonder
For legal charges about child abuse, hospitals can do no more than random people off the street can do -- to try to whip up a frenzy and prompt an investigation by authorities with applicable statutory authority to make legal charges.
Have you ever been involved in the investigation of child abuse by medical personnel? I have, and I know what you are insisting is wrong. "random people off the street" do not participate in the collection of evidence, are not involved in the development of the case leading to charges being filed, do not testify as expert witnesses. Medical personnel do.

Also, I never mentioned lap children. I was addressing your misrepresentation of the role of hospitals in the process of bringing charges of child abuse. If you meant strictly regarding lap children, you did not specify that, you made a blanket statement.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 3:19 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by CDTraveler View Post
Reread your own comment:


Have you ever been involved in the investigation of child abuse by medical personnel? I have, and I know what you are insisting is wrong. "random people off the street" do not participate in the collection of evidence, are not involved in the development of the case leading to charges being filed, do not testify as expert witnesses. Medical personnel do.

Also, I never mentioned lap children. I was addressing your misrepresentation of the role of hospitals in the process of bringing charges of child abuse. If you meant strictly regarding lap children, you did not specify that, you made a blanket statement.
Those arenít legal charges by an entity with applicable statutory authority to make legal charges. Those are contributions to such authorities making legal charges. And evidentiary and testimony contributions to investigations of child abuse can also be made by random people off the street, although how they get weighed would vary based on the specifics of the circumstances.

And given my affiliations with legal counsel for medical facilities, I would like to think I do know my stuff. Including when it comes to situations of those flagged by medical personnel trying to take aim at the medical care providers for doing so.

For legal charges about child abuse, hospitals can do no more than random people off the street can do -- to try to whip up a frenzy and prompt an investigation by authorities with applicable statutory authority to make legal charges.

And this thread is about lap children, whether you mention it or not.

Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 19, 19 at 3:38 am
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Old Dec 19, 19, 5:12 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by CDTraveler View Post
Reread your own comment:

Medical personnel do.
CT you are correct
we had our own investigator (social worker employed by the hospital) who had an office at the DA's office - and I could have a judge remove a child from a parent if I thought the child was in danger. And all physicians have the power to have the child removed from the parents by hospital security until a judgement can be done.

Originally Posted by GUWonder
For legal charges about child abuse, hospitals can do no more than random people off the street can do -- to try to whip up a frenzy and prompt an investigation by authorities with applicable statutory authority to make legal charges.


GU once again is incorrect and obviously may know a lawyer but does not know the law; Physicians have been held liable for not reporting cases (it is considered a misdemeanor). Landeros v. Flood (1976) ruled that a battered child cannot be returned to parents/caregivers, and that battered child syndrome is a legitimate medical diagnosis. A person on the street cannot do said. Most Children ER docs have removed a child from a parent1

o Person reporting is protected by law from being sued by parents and others, because it is hard to determine the cause of injury (accidental or intentional) and the person is acting in the child's best interest.

Back to child abuse, i have removed a severely injured child from a parent as noted above.
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Old Dec 19, 19, 5:52 pm
  #27  
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You believe yourself to have more power than a judge on such matters?

ďI could have a judge remove a child from a parentĒ.....

Now, Iím shaking in my boots for having children flying as lap children. Not.

This topic gets more unreal as time goes on.

Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 19, 19 at 5:57 pm
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Old Dec 20, 19, 8:37 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
You believe yourself to have more power than a judge on such matters?

ďI could have a judge remove a child from a parentĒ.....

Now, Iím shaking in my boots for having children flying as lap children. Not.

This topic gets more unreal as time goes on.
GU do you need glasses and I need to choose words. I can remove and ask the judge for permanent. I have removed after serious lap child injury and judge has given harsh outcome (weekly CP, etc). The same as child in car not it car seat.
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Old Dec 20, 19, 9:56 am
  #29  
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Removing after injury and removing for injury are not the same thing. And a person suggesting to or asking a judge to remove permanently is not the same thing as the person removing permanently themselves.

Thankfully judges tend to know better than to try to claim that U2 children traveling as lap children on planes should be an actionable event by and of itself and result in changing children's permanent legal custody status.

A U2 child being a lap-child on a plane is not the same thing as a U2 child being a lap-child in a car and not in a car seat in a car.
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Old Dec 20, 19, 6:56 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Thankfully judges tend to know better than to try to claim that U2 children traveling as lap children on planes should be an actionable event by and of itself and result in changing children's permanent legal custody status.

.
A chicago judge removed on child after 2nd injury (burn and head trauma) - he would not let them fly with the child until they bought seat. Thank fully they are correct and there is no difference between car and plane
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