Rebelyell

I was recently on a Delta ATL-AMS flight, and a "lap" child screamed and fussed for much of the trip. I don't blame the child; she was huge, and sitting in a lap must have been terribly uncomfortable. The child spent a good bit of time running up and down the aisle, sometimes being led by her mother. I didn't mind, as the walking at least shut up the screaming.

I have been on several domestic flights where I strongly suspected that a lap child was well over two years old, but I didn't think this was possible on an international flight, since the family would have to show passports. Are there countries which don't require passports for young children? The family in this case was African. Is it possible that this child could have been over 2, or was it just a case of a huge toddler.

I don't understand the concept of allowing lap children at all (we did it once, and it was a miserable disaster, uncomfortable for all), but if lap children must be allowed, would it not be reasonable to have a weight limit of say 15 pounds? Since young children rarely have identification, there is no other way to stop the parent from lying on domestic flights, and now I wonder about international ones.

The reason I say this is that whenever I see really big child sitting in a lap, I know that I'm in for a not-very-pleasant flight. Allowing this type of disruption -- essentially rewarding the parent for causing it -- seems to be a poor business model.

GadgetGal

The travellers' ethic origin is irrelevant here. the family were travelling between Atlanta and Amsterdam and both those locations require valid passports.

It is possible that the child was very close to their 2nd birthday, or maybe just big for her age

Yes, weight restrictions might be the answer but I could imagine parents of large children would feel penalised for being forced to buy more costly tickets for infants.

Rebelyell

My question is whether there are countries in which infants are not required to have passports, with the U.S. allowing these children into our country on some type of family passport. I think obviously the ethnic origin is of paramount importance, since we know that there is no such thing for an American citizen.

Are you saying with absolute certainty that the United States requires infants from every nation on earth to have their own passport? If so, my question is answered.

shorthauldad

Wouldn't a "family passport" show date(s) of birth?

GadgetGal

The original country/ethnic origin does not come into it.

When you travel, you obey the rules of the country to travel to (and any transit country in between). Therefore if the USA and Netherlands require individual passports then that family would have individual passports.

In some parts of Europe people can go from one country to another with just an ID card (certain nationalities). When they go to USA, they need a passport

GUWonder

The passport of the lap-child almost certainly indicated that the child was not yet of 2 years of age. And my bet is that the child was actually just under 2 years of age.

I find that bigger/older lap children on international long haul flights do better than smaller/younger lap children on the same flights.

GUWonder

Yes.

It's not uncommon for American people with international family ties to try to squeeze in one last lap-child ticket trip for their U2 child because it commonly means a substantial financial savings over the ticket cost involved as soon as the child turns 2 years of age.

If U12 children discounts were as prevalent to/from the US as they used to be, the OP would be spared the frequency of some of these sights.

extramileage

My girls were around 50%ile in height/weight (so, not big) and we started buying seats when they were about 16-18 months.

They are waaay too squirmy by that age to sit on one's lap for an extended period of time. You can also forget about trying to eat.

chollie

I've had one very bad experience with a huge lap child.

I was in coach, middle seat. The woman with the child was on the aisle. She was very large. She needed a seatbelt extension and simply was much too big to hold a child of any size comfortably. Not to be rude, but she didn't have a lap. The kid couldn't sit properly back-to-front (not enough lap), so the woman would try to hold her crosswise - sticking halfway into my lap and well into the aisle. The kid felt insecure in that position and kept squirming because she looked like she was going to roll off.

I didn't appreciate getting kicked in the face and shoulder throughout the flight or, alternately, having the kid's head banging on my shoulder as she fussed and whined. Fortunately, it was the first leg, 3 hours, and the FAs felt so bad for me that they talked to the gate agent and found me a seat up front for the second leg of my trip.

Both the pax and the kid were 'legal', but the combination wasn't fair to anyone unlucky enough to be seated next to them. They would have been cramped in the front of the plane.

obscure2k

Please continue to follow this thread in the Travel With Children Forum
Thanks..
Obscure2k
TravelBuzz Moderator

Transpacificflyer

Nationality has relevance. It is no secret that some countries do not vet the information on their passports and the ages of children can be changed. I draw your attention to this actual ongoing case;

http://windsorstar.com/news/local-ne...hool-as-a-teen

The 30 year old man was six-foot-nine and 202 pounds with a shoe size of 16, had been attending Catholic Central as a 17-year-old Grade 11 student. He was also a star on the Catholic Central Comets senior boys’ basketball team. Unbelievable isn't it? Well, he came from an African country notorious for inaccurate information, and the Canadian consular officials actually issued him with a student visa. The school officials had to accept him as he was documented as a 17 year old. There are many claims before the immigration refugee tribunals in the Netherlands and Canada involving males from certain countries who are claiming to be 15, 16, 17, while medical tests indicate that they are many years older. Children receive different treatment for their immigration claims than adults.

This then brings us back to the lapchild. I wouldn't be surprised if the child was older than 2. The airline agents cannot say anything lest they be accused of discrimination. They must rely on the documentation provided. As such, It is quite probable that the lap child was older and the parents had their reasons for misrepresenting the age.

GUWonder

Zero evidence that the lap child was older than 2 years of age and yet the prejudices comes out.

The fact of the matter is that there can be rather large variations amongst children when it comes to their sizes as they go from being infants to toddlers and beyond.

It's not rare for me to see some 15-18 months old children who are bigger than some of the healthy 3 and 4 years olds I know and whose family history I've got very well documented. And some healthy 3 year olds are smaller than some 22 month old children.

And so-called medical checks for age verification are anything but scientifically perfect in precise age determination.

GadgetGal

my point was directed to OPs question as to whether nationals from outside US could travel to/from US without passports.

the quote you posted was regarding documents that were [possbily] falsified , not the absence of documents.

MSPeconomist

Many babies look alike. I would think it would be pretty easy to "borrow" travel documents from a family member with a younger child to enable a kid somewhat older than two to travel for (almost) free as a lap kid. No one would know for sure that the child traveling is not the one pictured in the passport, assuming that basics like gender are correct.

CDTraveler

What that on KLM metal by any chance?

Flights to AMS on KLM are the only situation where I have encountered the problem of overly large lap children making all around them miserable. My first flight SFO-AMS I had a 3 yr old (her parents told me she was 3 when I asked) sitting on Daddy Darling's lap directly behind me. The little monster kicked the back of my seat clear across North America. I complained to the FA's but they were useless.

This has happened to me enough times that I see it as a KLM rule enforcement problem.