pseudoswede

I have some relatives from Sweden coming to visit us this May/June. They have offered to take Baby Swede (8-years-old) with them back to Sweden in mid-June (or thereabouts). Mrs. Swede, Miss Swede (11-years-old), and I had planned on going to Sweden starting around July 4. All four of us would return to the US around July 31.

Obviously, my relatives would be buying round-trip tickets ex-Sweden, but how to I get Baby Swede a ticket without triggering the UM fee since she would be traveling with relatives? I guess the other issue is that if there are IRROPS, there is a distinct possibility they could get "separated" due to being on separate tickets.

As of right now, I'm looking at five sets of tickets that I need to manage or be aware of...

Itinerary #1 (Relatives)
ARN-???-DEN-???-ARN

Itinerary #2 (Baby Swede)
DEN-???-ARN to match Itinerary #1, will trigger UM fee

Itinerary #3 (Mrs. Swede & Miss Swede)
Revenue ticket DEN-ORD-ARN-EWR-DEN

Itinerary #4 (Me)
Award ticket DEN-ORD-ARN to match Itinerary #3

Itinerary #5 (Me & Baby Swede)
Award ticket ARN-DUB-YYZ-DEN

I hear all the time about parents flying back early from Europe to go back to work, and the grandparents bring the kids back; or vice-versa. How is it done?

pinniped

I've never done a sequence quite that complex, but I *have* booked my daughters on individual itins, traveling with relatives on other itins, without incurring UM or phone fees. It almost always entails a call to the airline, as the website can't handle it. You just have to explain yourself and have the other passenger name/PNR handy. (You have to book at least one adult first.)

I booked a simple one last week: me on a BA ticket (AA metal), 12 y.o. daughter on an AA ticket, same flight. AA phone agent handled daughter's booking, put notes in her record, and even assigned our seats together. I've also booked these when it's Grandma flying, not me.

Yours might be a little harder to explain, but it still should be allowable.

I have never worried about IROPS. I'm the only one with elite status, so if I'm not traveling everybody's equally hosed anyway. If I *am* traveling, then I'll do the best I can to find the optimal way to rebook - lounge, elite counter, elite phone line, etc. - but I'll just make it clear that the rebooking needs to keep the child with at least one adult.

Yoshi212

My experience in this is limited but the few times I had to pay the fee it was done at the airport. When they check-in with your little one wouldn't that remove the need for the fee? Imagine people often buy tickets just for their kids to join them on work trips and such separate from their own travel.

GUWonder

Easily. Just like you seem to be considering. The UM fee is not applicable when there is an adult provided to accompany the child on the actual flights -- regardless of whether or not on the same ticketed PNR.

In case of IRROPS, airline reps can re-accommodate as needed to keep people on separately ticketed PNRs on the same flights so as not to create a child-accompanying adult separation issue.

Some families which I know send different nannies to bring back the young child from one parent to the other; and sometimes they even substitute nannies by getting a new ticket for the new/temp nanny. Frequently done with separately ticketed PNRs. Separate PNRs have the complication of seat selection issues and increasingly seat selection fees, but if you book early enough, this doesn't hit as hard (if at all).

Tchiowa

Doesn't have to be parents just an adult over 18. They don't have to be on the same ticket. You should accompany them to check in just in case the airline wants to make sure the parents or legal guardian is OK with the travel (as opposed to some kind of custody dispute). But you shouldn't have a problem.

6rugrats

As already noted, this isn't an issue as far as the UM fee. As long as the child is traveling with an adult, even on separate tickets, you don't need to pay it. You just need to notify the airline.

Would advise you provide relatives with a notarized "permission to travel" letter just in case. Check if you need to send a letter authorizing them to seek medical treatment for the child if necessary; I have no idea what Swedish laws are in regard to that issue.

JDiver

1) Be sure each child has the necessary documentation to travel - including notarized authoruzations of travel and with whom - that conform to the international treaty on child abduction most countries are signatories to as well as to the rules specific to countries to be visited. This is generally a legal requirement and can be enforced - and very inconvenient.

2) I'd include a notarized letter authorizing the olds to approve medical treatment for the small Swedes.

3) Airlines can add a "TCP note" ("To Complete Party") to the different PNRs so agents dealing with OSO (IRROPS), down gauged flights etc. can see those notes and keep the party together (some refer to this as "linking" PNRs or itineraries).

GUWonder

1. Except on the YYZ routing, the chances of being legally required to have a letter on a non-convoluted US-Sweden routing is pretty slim when the last names of the accompanying adult are the same as that of the young minors. However, when the last names are different and the transporting adults are not parents of the young minors, then the odds of being asked for such a letter are indeed much higher (even as not as high as being asked where the parent/parents are) and having such a letter make sense indeed. What makes even more sense than a letter, perhaps along with the letter, is having an ability to video chat in real time during the check-in/boarding/port-of-entry/port of exit formality times.

The relevant Hague Convention against international child abduction does not generally require signatory countries to demand a specific letter from parents for the child to travel for each and every given trip to/via a country. Even Canada commonly does not legally require such letters; this letter thing is more commonly asked by Canadian border authorities if doing something other than a sub-6 hour "airside" transits at YYZ on US-YYZ-Denmark/Sweden routings; and even then the easily faked "approval" letters have less bearing on credibility than even an actual real-time conversation using Skype/Facetime/online video chats using the free internet at YYZ.

Sweden and the EU authorities on the mentioned itineraries need a credible basis to deny admissions to young Swedish citizens (or even some young relatives of Swedish citizens accompanying their Swedish citizen family members) into any specific EU country; merely not having a letter is generally not sufficient legal grounds to deny such persons transport and/or admission. At least not in Sweden and Denmark.

2. More important than a health letter approval is health insurance for the kids. Even as the children may be dual citizens of Sweden and the US and visiting Swedish family, the children are not entitled to free/subsidized Swedish healthcare unless and until they are residents in Sweden. And the Swedish healthcare system is anything but cheap if you're not covered by some insurance/cost-subsidization agreement to avoid having to pay the whole tab.

3. TCP does indeed work and is worth the effort if an agent does it correctly and pays attention to it when it counts. But it does not always work all that reliably when IRROPs hit. Even on single ticketed PNRs, I've seen airlines -- even DL at that -- try to split up travel parties with one adult on the PNR and small children as the rest of the travel party.

pinniped

We always carry the authorized-travel letters with us whenever we split up. Sometimes our splits are me + 1 child on one plane and wife + 1 on another, so we always carry those other itinerary printouts with us as well.

To date, nobody's ever actually asked to see any of this (3 trips to Europe and several to Canada), but I assume they can and will at some point...

I know we don't carry *good* proof of medical coverage when we travel. My little insurance card is unrecognizable to anyone outside of the U.S., and it doesn't mention anything about coverage/reimbursements internationally. I should probably look into this...

pseudoswede

Thank you all for your insight. I've been quite busy with other things, but I will be laid-up in bed this weekend after a minor surgical procedure, so I will spend time digesting this information.

Indeed, we will have notarized letters galore giving my relatives (Baby Swede's aunt and adult cousin) permission to bring her to Sweden.

Yes, both of my children are dual citizens of Sweden and the US. Both of my children have gotten medical care in Sweden due to illnesses--Miss Swede was hospitalized for three days once when she was young. We haven't paid a dime. The only time we've been billed for any medical services in Sweden was when we got TBE vaccines (and, yes, that was pretty darn expensive).

pseudoswede

Okay. Is this how it goes?

1. In-laws buy their tickets. Get their PNR.
2. Mrs. Swede, Miss Swede, and I buy our tickets. Get our PNR.
3. Buy Baby Swede's ticket over the phone. Link PNRs.
4. Pray the prices don't increase exponentially in the few hours steps 1, 2, & 3 will take places.

Edited to add: And BA says that is correct.

GUWonder

Yes. Hopefully the flights the in-laws book have lots of seats available. And sometimes this process is more easily done when not seeking out a "child" fare and booking the child while searching for space for "adult" tickets, something that doesn't generally exclude a child from being flown internationally under the correct birthdate too.

I was under the impression that Swedish citizens who aren't legally resident in Sweden aren't covered by Forsakringkassan/sjukforsakring (Swedish governmental insurance) on temporary visits to Sweden. Did someone ever register Miss Swede as legally resident in Sweden in the population register to cover a visit to Sweden, or was it that the population register never listed her as being outside of Sweden?

pseudoswede

In my very small data sample (friends with similar situations), we have never heard of anyone paying for medical care when their child needed care.

Her personnummer indicates she is a Swedish citizen born outside Sweden (they add six to one of the digits, I can't remember which one).

pseudoswede

Unfortunately, #4 reared its ugly head since we had to deal with an 8-hour time difference. I booked our tickets (#2) last night, the in-laws booked their tickets an hour ago (#1), and Baby Swede's ticket rose about 15% during that time.

Dealing with the BA Call Centre was actually a very easy process and very pleasant.

pseudoswede

I've been told traveling through the UK can be difficult for situations like this. Can anyone provide an authorization form that has worked when transiting the UK?