Kicked off flight due to toddler crying caused by US Airways
Jul 28, 2013, 7:44 am
#31
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Back in the days when my son needed a car seat, we were once told to put it in the middle seat, between the parents. IIRC correctly, that was on AA. I'm not claiming that was the rule, or what should have happened, but one FA told us to do it. We ignored her and placed it by the window, which the other FA (and past experience) had told us to do.
There are folks in the airline industry who make up their own rules as they go along.
There are folks in the airline industry who make up their own rules as they go along.
Jul 28, 2013, 8:31 am
#32
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
When it comes to car seats, the general direction seems to be that of avoiding placement of the car seat in an aisle seat. With limited mobility passengers -- infants excluded -- the general direction seems to be that of putting such passengers in the aisle seat. I have seen FAs make a fuss about car seat placement in non-aisle seats and I have seen FAs make a fuss about limited-mobility passengers helping themselves to window seats. The only fuss I've seen FAs make over where not to seat a lap-child infant involves oxygen mask concerns.
Jul 28, 2013, 9:27 am
#33
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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From the FAA advisory circular:
18. PLACEMENT OF CRS ON THE AIRCRAFT. CRSs must be installed in forward-facing aircraft seats, in accordance with instructions on the label. This includes placing the CRS in the appropriate forward or aft-facing direction as indicated on the label for the size of the child. A window seat is the preferred location; however, other locations may be acceptable, provided the CRS does not block the egress of any passenger, including the child’s parent or guardian, to the aisle used to evacuate the aircraft. The regulations contained in §§ 91.107, 121.311, 125.211, and 135.128 allow aircraft operators to determine the most appropriate passenger seat location for CRSs based on safe operating practices. In making this determination, an aircraft operator should consider the following.
a. Aisle Seats. CRSs should not be placed in an aisle seat because this placement has the highest risk of slowing down the passenger flow rate during an evacuation. For example, a parent or guardian traveling with the child in a CRS may step out into the aisle to release the child from the CRS or the CRS may impede F/As who may need to climb over the top of aisle seats to get past passengers in the aisle to reach an emergency exit.
...
19. TRAVELING WITH MORE THAN ONE CHILD. In the event a parent/guardian is traveling with more than one child in a CRS or is traveling with several small children, only one of whom is occupying a CRS, good judgment should be used regarding placement of the CRSs As long as these conditions below are met, the CRS could be placed in a seat other than a window seat. At a minimum:
• The CRS should be placed so it does not block any passengers (including the parent/guardian) egress to the aisle used to evacuate the aircraft, and
• The CRS should be placed so the parent/guardian can reach the child in the CRS to release and evacuate with the child, should an emergency evacuation be necessary.
FAA Advisory Circular AC 120-87B - Use of Child Restraint Systems on Aircraft
a. Aisle Seats. CRSs should not be placed in an aisle seat because this placement has the highest risk of slowing down the passenger flow rate during an evacuation. For example, a parent or guardian traveling with the child in a CRS may step out into the aisle to release the child from the CRS or the CRS may impede F/As who may need to climb over the top of aisle seats to get past passengers in the aisle to reach an emergency exit.
...
19. TRAVELING WITH MORE THAN ONE CHILD. In the event a parent/guardian is traveling with more than one child in a CRS or is traveling with several small children, only one of whom is occupying a CRS, good judgment should be used regarding placement of the CRSs As long as these conditions below are met, the CRS could be placed in a seat other than a window seat. At a minimum:
• The CRS should be placed so it does not block any passengers (including the parent/guardian) egress to the aisle used to evacuate the aircraft, and
• The CRS should be placed so the parent/guardian can reach the child in the CRS to release and evacuate with the child, should an emergency evacuation be necessary.
FAA Advisory Circular AC 120-87B - Use of Child Restraint Systems on Aircraft
Jul 28, 2013, 10:36 am
#34
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: France
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Thank you! Those are the docs. We were told simply no car seat between a passenger and the aisle, so center seats in the center section were okay on two-aisle aircraft.
There are folks in the airline industry who make up their own rules as they go along.
Actually, it's less that and more a case of not-remembering-correctly-from-training, especially with special issues they don't run into every day. We had so much to learn and memorize. I also worked with F/A's who were with foreign airlines and actually heard them spitting out the wrong rules to passengers! Car seat and handicapped rules were quite different.
This is why it's so important to stop if you're hearing something that's ringing wrong. They have to have their manuals with them. Have them check, especially since most of you are experienced flyers and will be quick to notice. Do this before anything gets heated.
There are folks in the airline industry who make up their own rules as they go along.
Actually, it's less that and more a case of not-remembering-correctly-from-training, especially with special issues they don't run into every day. We had so much to learn and memorize. I also worked with F/A's who were with foreign airlines and actually heard them spitting out the wrong rules to passengers! Car seat and handicapped rules were quite different.
This is why it's so important to stop if you're hearing something that's ringing wrong. They have to have their manuals with them. Have them check, especially since most of you are experienced flyers and will be quick to notice. Do this before anything gets heated.
Jul 28, 2013, 1:43 pm
#35
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But then some airline sticks the small mother and her CRS seated 2-month old in seats such that they are blocked from aisles by a mobility-limited obese passenger who has the aisle. Go figure. I know I can probably jump a car seat in a way I cannot some very large mobility-impaired passenger.
Jul 28, 2013, 2:13 pm
#36
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
But then some airline sticks the small mother and her CRS seated 2-month old in seats such that they are blocked from aisles by a mobility-limited obese passenger who has the aisle. Go figure. I know I can probably jump a car seat in a way I cannot some very large mobility-impaired passenger.
Why do you keep bringing extraneous topics, like POS and mobility impaired pax, into this thread? Do they have anything at all to do with the OP's issue?
Jul 28, 2013, 2:43 pm
#37
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Aug 4, 2013, 6:24 pm
#38
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When it comes to aisle seats, the rationale (which is to facilitate evacuation in the event of an emergency) generally restricting CRS-seated passengers does not apply to other seated passengers who may also/further undermine the ability of window and/or middle seat passenger(s) to evacuate as quickly in the event of an emergency.
Oxygen masks and airbags aren't the only reasons why seating restrictions are what they are. Evacuation concerns are also part of the picture, even as the rationale for that is not applied equally to the subset of passengers who may be a minor or major obstruction to evacuation when seated in an aisle seat.
Aug 6, 2013, 12:42 pm
#39
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2
kicked off flight
My question is, if the toddler immediately stopped crying when he realized how serious getting off the plane was, why did the parent not take charge to get the child to stop crying.
Also each a/c is different and the agents or crew may not have known about the airbags being an issue until the passengers were boarded. Aircraft must operate on active runways and be spaced with other aircraft, having to wait to do the demo, is a safety risk. If it looked like it could be a long time before the child would calm down, and they were going to lose their slot time, I could see why the crew would be concerned.
Also each a/c is different and the agents or crew may not have known about the airbags being an issue until the passengers were boarded. Aircraft must operate on active runways and be spaced with other aircraft, having to wait to do the demo, is a safety risk. If it looked like it could be a long time before the child would calm down, and they were going to lose their slot time, I could see why the crew would be concerned.
Aug 6, 2013, 1:09 pm
#40
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My question is, if the toddler immediately stopped crying when he realized how serious getting off the plane was, why did the parent not take charge to get the child to stop crying.
Also each a/c is different and the agents or crew may not have known about the airbags being an issue until the passengers were boarded. Aircraft must operate on active runways and be spaced with other aircraft, having to wait to do the demo, is a safety risk. If it looked like it could be a long time before the child would calm down, and they were going to lose their slot time, I could see why the crew would be concerned.
Also each a/c is different and the agents or crew may not have known about the airbags being an issue until the passengers were boarded. Aircraft must operate on active runways and be spaced with other aircraft, having to wait to do the demo, is a safety risk. If it looked like it could be a long time before the child would calm down, and they were going to lose their slot time, I could see why the crew would be concerned.
Aug 6, 2013, 1:46 pm
#41
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Aug 6, 2013, 2:15 pm
#43
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 57
I made it clear when booking that I wanted the bulkhead for that exact reason. I had my husband get a gate pass so that he could watch my son while I set up his carseat in the bulkhead row.
To clarify, I did not "show up" at the airport the next day looking to rebook, I called reservations. I did not argue at all at the airport, I just left crying after a very humiliating experience.
To clarify, I did not "show up" at the airport the next day looking to rebook, I called reservations. I did not argue at all at the airport, I just left crying after a very humiliating experience.
At which airport did this happen? In the quoted article, you state that you had to wait 2 hours in a hot terminal for your husband to pick you up, yet here you state that he had a gate pass and was at the gate. There are some inconsistencies here.
Aug 6, 2013, 2:52 pm
#44
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It seems as though this poster does not understand how toddlers work. They are not adults and generally do not stop a tantrum simply because someone tells them to. Indeed, sometimes you can exacerbate the tantrum just by interacting with the toddler at all. Often times you can get them to stop crying by changing the surroundings (which is what appears to have happened here), but that's usually not an option on an aircraft.
Aug 6, 2013, 2:59 pm
#45
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It seems as though this poster does not understand how toddlers work. They are not adults and generally do not stop a tantrum simply because someone tells them to. Indeed, sometimes you can exacerbate the tantrum just by interacting with the toddler at all. Often times you can get them to stop crying by changing the surroundings (which is what appears to have happened here), but that's usually not an option on an aircraft.