Jun 3, 2013, 11:49 am
Last edit by: Erasmus
Please post your real-world experiences on which aircraft seats it works on, or doesn't work on.
Consolidated Infant Restraints in Premium Cabin
Works
Scandinavian Airlines - A330/A340 - Economy seats
Scandinavian Airlines - A330/A340 - Economy Extra seats
United Airlines - all narrowbodies - Economy and Economy Plus seats
Works with a lot of effort (please describe)
Doesn't work at all
Consolidated Infant Restraints in Premium Cabin
Works
Scandinavian Airlines - A330/A340 - Economy seats
Scandinavian Airlines - A330/A340 - Economy Extra seats
United Airlines - all narrowbodies - Economy and Economy Plus seats
Works with a lot of effort (please describe)
Doesn't work at all
CARES Child Aviation Restraints for toddlers
Oct 30, 2012, 2:26 am
#31
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cambridge, England
Programs: BA, VS, Le Club Accor Gold
Posts: 1,208
Assuming its CW this is probably the best photo that shows the seat! http://www.britishairways.com/travel...d/public/en_gb
Regardless have just found the information you wanted and assuming the Amsafe Sytem and Cares are the same thing? it can't be used in F, CW or WT+ on BA
Regardless have just found the information you wanted and assuming the Amsafe Sytem and Cares are the same thing? it can't be used in F, CW or WT+ on BA
Oct 31, 2012, 1:06 am
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,908
Can i request lap kid belt attachment for takeoffs and landings and hold them? My kids find it extremely amusing to unbuckle their own belts and in C reaching across to prevent them from doing so is not very straightforward.
(the only other option i can think of is duct tape
)
(the only other option i can think of is duct tape
)
Oct 31, 2012, 5:34 am
#35
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: France
Programs: United Plus
Posts: 1,761
Sorry, what's a "lap kid belt attachment"?
On U.S. companies, babies under age two have to be loose in your lap and not attached to you in any way. This is safer for the child.
On many foreign companies, they require a seat belt loop, or "belly belt". This is to prevent lap babies from flying through the cabin on forward impact. Even though they're unsafe for the baby, it's for the others on the plane.
On U.S. companies, babies under age two have to be loose in your lap and not attached to you in any way. This is safer for the child.
On many foreign companies, they require a seat belt loop, or "belly belt". This is to prevent lap babies from flying through the cabin on forward impact. Even though they're unsafe for the baby, it's for the others on the plane.
Oct 31, 2012, 2:21 pm
#36
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cambridge, England
Programs: BA, VS, Le Club Accor Gold
Posts: 1,208
The lap belt more commonly used for lap infants.. For a two year old they'd be in their own seat
i'd rather have the lap attachment for a lap infant than nothing at all, its only U.S companies who don't use them afterall
i'd rather have the lap attachment for a lap infant than nothing at all, its only U.S companies who don't use them afterall
Nov 1, 2012, 2:02 am
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,908
To restate: my kids who are over 2 and who have their own seats in C are very likely (based on all our flying experience so far) to unbuckle themselves at the most exciting moment on takeoff or landing. While tumbling down the aisle may provide some educational value it would likely reflect poorly on my image as a parent . Reaching across in C is not always easy (Y is not a problem in that regard).
So I wonder if can i use the belt attachment (if on foreign carriers) or hold them on my lap (on american ones) on takeoff and landing even though they have their own seats?
. Reaching across in C is not always easy (Y is not a problem in that regard).So I wonder if can i use the belt attachment (if on foreign carriers) or hold them on my lap (on american ones) on takeoff and landing even though they have their own seats?
Nov 1, 2012, 2:53 am
#38
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: France
Programs: United Plus
Posts: 1,761
So I wonder if can i use the belt attachment (if on foreign carriers) or hold them on my lap (on american ones) on takeoff and landing even though they have their own seats?
I'm not aware of any foreign air authorities who allow lap babies over age 2. Some allow them if the child turns two on the flight and some airlines, quite frankly, aren't that strict and if you waited until the F/A's are seated, you could sneak them out of their seats. Of course, you couldn't ask for a seat belt loop, if you plan to do that.
What about offering them each a new toy just before push-back? Worked for me, as well as a car seat.
i'd rather have the lap attachment for a lap infant than nothing at all, its only U.S companies who don't use them afterall
That's very nice of you to think of your fellow passengers because it's dangerous for your child. That's why they're banned on U.S. and Canadian companies. German airlines also couldn't use them but the EU overrode the ban.
Even if you're very skinny and small, you weigh more than your child, who wouldn't have a prayer in forward impact.
I'm not aware of any foreign air authorities who allow lap babies over age 2. Some allow them if the child turns two on the flight and some airlines, quite frankly, aren't that strict and if you waited until the F/A's are seated, you could sneak them out of their seats. Of course, you couldn't ask for a seat belt loop, if you plan to do that.
What about offering them each a new toy just before push-back? Worked for me, as well as a car seat.
i'd rather have the lap attachment for a lap infant than nothing at all, its only U.S companies who don't use them afterall
That's very nice of you to think of your fellow passengers because it's dangerous for your child. That's why they're banned on U.S. and Canadian companies. German airlines also couldn't use them but the EU overrode the ban.
Even if you're very skinny and small, you weigh more than your child, who wouldn't have a prayer in forward impact.
Nov 1, 2012, 6:19 am
#39
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cambridge, England
Programs: BA, VS, Le Club Accor Gold
Posts: 1,208
I'd love to know why if they are so dangerous why they are still in use then, a note to add i was offered the use of one when flying on UA when my daughter was 23 months
As for foreign airlines not allowing over 2 year olds to sit on laps wasn't that one of the issues over the toddler (and family) off loaded for the tantrum the toddler was having because she wasn't able to sit on her mother's lap for takeoff?
As for foreign airlines not allowing over 2 year olds to sit on laps wasn't that one of the issues over the toddler (and family) off loaded for the tantrum the toddler was having because she wasn't able to sit on her mother's lap for takeoff?
Last edited by fredandgingermad; Nov 1, 2012 at 6:27 am
Nov 2, 2012, 5:02 am
#40
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 270
I believe that almost all regulatory authorities recommend the use of an approved child restraint system as being preferrable to a lap infant. As Eclipsepearl noted, there are a few regulatory authorities that do not permit the use of the loop belt (also known as a belly belt) and instead, for lap infants, require the parent to simply hold them unrestrained.
Neither the loop belt nor unrestrained lap infant is ideal, for many reasons. In relation to the loop belt specifically, a number of studies have been conducted to evaluate its effectiveness in an accident. Although a worst-case scenario, the following reports summarize the primary hazard associated with its use:
"In a suddenly occurring deceleration in the longitudinal aircraft axis, the adult and the infant show a pronounced jack-knife effect. The upper torso and the lower extremities of the infant as well as of the adult sitting behind the infant fold up in a forward direction, with the loop belt restraining the infant. Finally, the loop belt drives into the infant's abdomen and only stops at his or her vertebral spine. From the technical point of view, the infant acts like an energy absorption element for the adult; the crash loads acting on the adult are thus reduced, and the infant fixed with the loop belt thus suffers most serious up to fatal injuries."
Examination on the Enhancement of Cabin Safety for Infants
"The data and observations from the four tests with the belly belt did not produce any favorable results. The impossibility of protecting a small child, by any means, sitting on the lap of an adult restrained by seat belts was confirmed in these tests. Severe contact with the forward row seat back was observed during double row tests. The recorded head impact of the 6-month old CRABI ATD resulted in a HIC above 1900. Abdominal pressures from the CAMIX ATD were 50% greater than data from booster seats under similar conditions. Aft row occupant impact on the breakover seat back resulted in a definitive peak in the abdominal pressure data. Based on the biomechanical data as well as observations of the films from these tests, the belly belt should not be construed as means of protecting small children."
The Performance of Child Restraint Devices in Transport Airplane Passenger Seats
Examination on the Enhancement of Cabin Safety for Infants
"The data and observations from the four tests with the belly belt did not produce any favorable results. The impossibility of protecting a small child, by any means, sitting on the lap of an adult restrained by seat belts was confirmed in these tests. Severe contact with the forward row seat back was observed during double row tests. The recorded head impact of the 6-month old CRABI ATD resulted in a HIC above 1900. Abdominal pressures from the CAMIX ATD were 50% greater than data from booster seats under similar conditions. Aft row occupant impact on the breakover seat back resulted in a definitive peak in the abdominal pressure data. Based on the biomechanical data as well as observations of the films from these tests, the belly belt should not be construed as means of protecting small children."
The Performance of Child Restraint Devices in Transport Airplane Passenger Seats
Nov 2, 2012, 5:45 am
#41
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cambridge, England
Programs: BA, VS, Le Club Accor Gold
Posts: 1,208
I will note that it was only for take off and landing, it may also merely have been a seat belt extension, for the flight itself (i.e at altitude) she was in her own seat
Interesting reports thanks for sharing, i noted that the reports deal with the infant sitting forward facing on lap, no reference to other positions, e.g a nursing infant, i know they don't nurse all flight but in recollection for me at least on very few flights that i took with my daughter before she turned 2 rarely did i have her on my lap except for take off and landing
Fairly interested that this issue didn't arise when i trained for cabin crew!
Interesting reports thanks for sharing, i noted that the reports deal with the infant sitting forward facing on lap, no reference to other positions, e.g a nursing infant, i know they don't nurse all flight but in recollection for me at least on very few flights that i took with my daughter before she turned 2 rarely did i have her on my lap except for take off and landing
Fairly interested that this issue didn't arise when i trained for cabin crew!
Nov 2, 2012, 11:50 am
#42
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: France
Programs: United Plus
Posts: 1,761
Were you trained in the U.K.? It was discussed in detail in both my trainings (yes, I flew with two U.S. companies).
Belly belts are banned in the U.S. and are not available on flights. They are required on all EU companies to protect the other passengers.
Honestly, there isn't enough crash data to come to any clear decision on which is best. I kind of see the logic both ways. If you opt to save money by not buying a ticket, then why should others be put at risk? Then again, how many times has this happened? Again, commercial aviation is safe. So few incidents happen that there isn't enough solid evidence to work with. They kind of patch together actual accident reports, sled tests and car crash data to decide, so it's very imprecise.
issues over the toddler (and family) off loaded for the tantrum the toddler was having because she wasn't able to sit on her mother's lap for takeoff?
This was funny because my kids didn't want out of their seats to sit in my lap. Sitting anywhere, even my lap, was the LAST thing on their minds. They just wanted to RUN. My oldest was a bolter. He loved taking off in public places. The bigger, the more crowded, the better. It was his own seat, the car seat and a new toy, given right at push-back or we too, would have been off-loaded!
Belly belts are banned in the U.S. and are not available on flights. They are required on all EU companies to protect the other passengers.
Honestly, there isn't enough crash data to come to any clear decision on which is best. I kind of see the logic both ways. If you opt to save money by not buying a ticket, then why should others be put at risk? Then again, how many times has this happened? Again, commercial aviation is safe. So few incidents happen that there isn't enough solid evidence to work with. They kind of patch together actual accident reports, sled tests and car crash data to decide, so it's very imprecise.
issues over the toddler (and family) off loaded for the tantrum the toddler was having because she wasn't able to sit on her mother's lap for takeoff?
This was funny because my kids didn't want out of their seats to sit in my lap. Sitting anywhere, even my lap, was the LAST thing on their minds. They just wanted to RUN. My oldest was a bolter. He loved taking off in public places. The bigger, the more crowded, the better. It was his own seat, the car seat and a new toy, given right at push-back or we too, would have been off-loaded!
Nov 2, 2012, 2:09 pm
#43
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11
Hi. Has anyone tried the CARES child restraint on EY? Their website says EY have approved CARES in their aircraft but another flyertalk thread has described how many flight attendants (on other airlines) have not allowed parents to use the system as they have not been briefed on the system.
On a second note, does the CARES system fit on the business class seats in EY?
Thanks in advance!
On a second note, does the CARES system fit on the business class seats in EY?
Thanks in advance!
Nov 2, 2012, 2:27 pm
#44
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: AUS
Programs: AA 2MM EXP, UA 1K, DL Silver
Posts: 361
Hi. Has anyone tried the CARES child restraint on EY? Their website says EY have approved CARES in their aircraft but another flyertalk thread has described how many flight attendants (on other airlines) have not allowed parents to use the system as they have not been briefed on the system.
Nov 2, 2012, 4:11 pm
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Denver, CO
Programs: UA Silver, Bonvoy Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 21,537
Once we had to purchase seats for both of our kids, we brought the belly belt onto the next SK flight and left it on the plane.