Plato90s

Yeah, that's unlikely to happen given Forex is a money-maker for banks.

arcticflier

ft101

You're wrong. Your link shows the rates the bank offer when you use their services like exchanging over the counter. The ATM network uses the exchange rate set by Mastercard, Visa etc depending on the card being used, which is usually much better than the banks.

arcticflier

Diplomatico

"The exchange rate for international purchases and foreign ATM transactions is set by Visa® or MasterCard®, depending on your card's logo. This exchange rate is either the wholesale market rate or a government-mandated rate on the day before the date the transaction is processed. The processing date may differ from the date of the transaction."

https://www.bankofamerica.com/foreig...e-rates-faq.go

tide

My data points come from monthly travel to Asia over the last 15+ years using Visa, Mastercard and in the last 1 year, Amex.

1) Previous poster said Citibank's ATM rates were good compared with Chase Visa cc. The difference is because both are using different networks, Mastercard vs Visa. Rates are set differently. Not because Citibank has a better rate than Chase.

2) Your first link to forex rates are for cash or bank transactions, not ATM

3) The 2nd link (Visa) shows Visa actually beating the best cash rates 31.40 vs 31.33 (SIA) on Jan 30. However, because Visa calculates their rates daily, sometimes a spot cash rate, particularly if the rate fluctuates widely, might be marginally better. In some countries e.g. Vietnam, the spot cash rate appears always better for pristine 100USD notes.

For ATM, it is the interchange network (Cirrus MC, Plus Visa, UnionPay etc) rate + the (source of funds) bank % cut (if any, e.g. Schwab is zero) + the transacting bank's ATM access fee if any (Thailand: 150B or 220B). In the last one year, I've done around 20+ transactions in 7 Asian countries - all have followed this formula exactly.

LIH Prem

Some ATMs do the equivalent of DCC, and ask you if you want them to do the conversion. If you accept that, then you get hit by the banks rates which are always going to be less favorable than the Visa/MC network rates. So nobody ever does that more than once, perhaps by accident.

Since you are intelligent and know not to accept DCC no matter how it's worded at the ATM, then the network (Visa, MC, etc) does the exchange using reasonable rates.

As far as the ATM fees, simply use a debit card from an account like the Schwab One account (or Fidelity CMA and others) that rebate all ATM fees. These accounts are trivial to open, have no hard credit pulls for the debit cards and have low or no minimum balances. Then there's no need to worry about any of this.

-David

Plato90s

Yes, I always specify transactions should be conducted in local currency (both ATM/CC) because letting someone else do the conversion usually gets crap-rates.

One time, many years ago, I absentmindedly agreed to let a Marriott hotel do the currency conversion to USD. I paid about 2% extra.



These days I carry enough USD as backup because sometimes the bank decides to lock my ATM despite travel notice. But I generally shift to ATM now that I have a global-reimbursement account via CitiGold.

I try to withdraw large sums to prevent the Thai banks from getting multiple fees, but honestly 150bht vs. 220bht is largely irrelevant when Citibank pays it.

ft101

Your links do not prove your case as has been explained and now backed up by many other posters. For ATM withdrawals, the rate is set by Visa, Mastercard etc. unless DCC is selected, which won't happen to anyone on here I hope.

arcticflier

LIH Prem

Unbelievable.

-David

arcticflier

arcticflier

LIH Prem

But how did it compare to the rate in the currency app or xe.com for that day? Presumably you didn't make the reservation that day.

I think it's always better to decline DCC.

As far as the ATM, the ATM doesn't do any conversion as long as you opt out of DCC. The debit is done in local currency and converted by the network/US bank. Once you get home you can calculate the rates from your statement using calculators and historical exchange data on xe.com.

-David

arcticflier