Because it affects everybody in the long run. People who can't or don't want to understand and comply with the culture and customs of the countries they visit should stay at home as far as I'm concerned.

Some people do whatever you like in most aspects of life, regardless of others.

Well done.

Sounds a little harsh to me.

how exactly does that work, and what is the impact? tourism and tipping have been around for a long time - when will we reach the end of the long run?

Recipients of tips are workers in tourism and hospitality industries. I think you may be under-estimating their abilities to cope with over-generous, or even under-generous tipping :)

I think you might also under-estimate their ability to comprehend there are different approaches to this delicate area among visitors, just as there are among locals, and just as there are between locals and visitors.

Trying to mould workers' expectations to the US model of a well-defined table of tip percentages stinks of cultural hegemony.

The idea is that, if tourists adopt tipping habits which are far more generous than local practice, it will gradually introduce expectations of tipping at the same level by everybody, thereby putting locals users of services in a difficult position.

I certainly heard locals in the Cape Town area moaning that tourists where over-tipping car watchers in beach areas far too much, with the consequence that locals were now also increasingly expected to up their tips too.

While the views expressed in earlier posts by some posters might perhaps have been expressed in terms which could have been more diplomatic, it seems to me that they certainly have a point that it behoves us as tourists to make an effort to become acquainted and follow local practices rather than merely doing what we please unaware and unconcerned about the consequences of our actions.

Americans tend to impinge their customs on everyone. Tipping is no exception.

As for the "ability to comprehend"..."typically" people in the service industry are NOT well-traveled / well-heeled individuals. If that were the case, then American waiters/waitresses would be "ok" with a German tipping them 5% (generous by their culture) and understand WHY they are not getting AT LEAST 15%, if not 20%.

So, you can't have it both ways. Either the service staff "understand" why they are not getting tipped well (in respect to US) b/c of foreign cultures not changing their behavior, or others convert to their "understood" levels of tipping in the country they are traveling to.

It would seem more likely the TRAVELER should be one who should take the time to learn the local's customs, etc.

In Pakistan, would you shake the hand of someone from the opposite sex?
In Iraq, would you offer your left hand to shake someone's hand?
In Thailand, would you touch someone on top of the head or point the bottoms of your feet at someone??

Well, if you wanted to OFFEND someone, you wouldn't. If you wanted to be impolite or create a faux-paus, you wouldn't. So, simply b/c someone is too lazy to learn a culture, you("big" tippers) feel it's alright? I understand "how can it be wrong to give someone money?" Well, perhaps instead of tipping where it isn't custom, you should help the poor instead. There are PLENTY of poor people in Thailand, and surrounding countries. Your "tip" would give FAR more help and go much farther and be MUCH more appreciated. It seems some of the big tippers here simply tip to get even better service. Nothing wrong w/ that, but they also position themselves that they are "just being generous and customary"..well then you should expect nothing from your gratuity. If that's the case...donate to the truly needy and truly poor who do not have homes or shelter in those countries.


Edit:

I'll also add, tipping in the states has GOTTEN OUT OF HAND. In the last couple/few years, it is HARD to go to a place which you NEVER would have thought to tip in the past, and has a "tip jar" at the counter. It isn't like the deli guy isn't going to give me my sandwich, or Subway is going to give me extra meat for free if I tip....what they can and have to give is mandated by the HQ / chain. It isn't like they aren't going to give you your sandwich or burn it b/c you didn't tip or make change faster. So...if you want to see where tipping *could* go in countries w/ no tipping...look to the U.S. Where in the 50s/60s/70s/80s the ONLY people who saw tipping were waiters/waitresses/bell hops and perhaps the doorman at a high-end hotel. There again, the rich wanted to be seen as "having sooo much money they could tip the doorman"...now if you don't tip the doorman, you're seen as a tightwad...amazing how that progressed.

100% agree
I live in the states where it now seems that 20% for dinner is standard. My employer, a Canadian will not allow anything over 15% - I now feel cheap when I'm forced to leave Only 15%

I think maybe you got confused?

If you wanted to offend someone you would do these things.

Or if you didn't want to offend them then you wouldn't do these things.


I wouldn't put tipping/not tipping into the same category as respect for local cultural customs, certainly not here in Thailand anyway.

It's a constant moan from Cape Towners. But it's a nonsense to attribute this to tourists' generosity. The car guardians aren't tipped, they extort cash from tourists. The market is not transparent and is supply-limited. The guardians are exploiting this. Cape Towners compete with tourists for car parking spaces: the guardians impose their own price regulation.

While some tourism-related services in other countries have similar market characteristics to Cape Town car parking, most do not.

Exactly. Adapting to local mores is generally a good thing.

However, adopting local customs and behaviours is something else. It can be fun, but it runs the risk of making you look ridiculous (the tourist wai) or increasing your social insecurity to frightening levels. But if that's what floats your tourism boat, go for it! If it makes your visit more pleasurable, then try to codify the local approach to tipping, wear saris, chew betel.

Most of us don't have the time, will or stomach for these things.

But please (bringing this mini-rant back on thread) don't attempt to impose a rigid system of tipping on us, or on a society where no such system exists.

If tipping too much or too little isn't widely accepted as being inappropriate, then why are there a bazillion tipping guides on the interwebz?

Fact: Tipping is NOT the norm in Asia, and it is NOT expected here (nor is it the norm in most other places outside of the USA, for that matter). The recipient may appreciate it, but on the whole, it's ill-regarded by the locals. Basically, when dining or taking a cab in Thailand, you're expected to leave your loose change (coins) or round up the total on the credit card slip. This is more about YOU not being viewed as a greedy cheapskate than it is about rewarding the recipient.

People object to it being done to excess because:

(1) Tipping does, over time, tend to create an expectation from the workers that makes life difficult and more expensive for locals.

(2) Tipping tends to result in worker apathy (if not downright surliness) when they're conditioned to expect huge tips, especially from foreigners, and they don't get them. It tends to destroy the motivation to do ones job properly simply because it's what you're supposed to do.

(3) Foreigners who give inappropriately big tips are more often regarded as suckers, easy targets, or yahoos, than they are generous -- in Asia, it's seen as just throwing your money away, which is viewed as a serious character flaw in a culture that considers frugality a virtue. Inappropriately big tippers are actually more likely to be treated with less respect, not more.

(4) However, even if you don't care about any of those points, you should consider the BIGGEST problem: Tipping leads to lower wages. When a particular job consistently receives tips, and most people see tipping as mandatory for that job, employers rationalize that they don't need to pay those jobs as much as other minimum-wage-type jobs.

If you doubt this phenomenon, consider that US law permits employers to pay servers about 70% LESS than minimum wage. This is SPECIFICALLY a tip credit against cash wages (e.g., for a $7 minimum wage, the employer can deduct up to $5 for tips; minimum wage for servers is about $2/hr). Thus the "rule" that all servers should be tipped a minimum of 20% for average service. But most people don't realize that a few states have laws forbidding tip credits, and that servers in those states are all paid minimum wage. The result is over-generalization and misapplication of the "20% rule" to all restaurants in all states (see #1 above), so in minimum wage states (like California), servers get a huge bonus relative to their counterparts elsewhere, and customers pay an unnecessary premium for meals (compared to states where they're expected to essentially pay part of the server's wage directly).

With regard to Thailand, where every worker is paid at least the minimum wage, consider that a 20% tip on your THB3,00 hotel dinner for two is equal to about three days wages. Think about that. Three days pay for two hours spent doing their job, waiting on a single table.

In California, that would be like leaving a $190 tip (relative to the server's wage). If your dinners for two typically run about $900 a pop, well then that's certainly fine. But dinners for two costing 15 times the minimum wage are rare in CA. They're not at all uncommon in Bangkok.

Context, people. It's really important to consider the context.

mr&mrs got the facts right, best post on this thread ^

Can't believe the level of ignorance & arrogance shown by some other posters here, just because you travel to Asia on business a few times a year or you have lived in Asia for a couple of years with a Thai spouse (but your social group comprising primarily of fellow farangs), it does not make you an expert on local culture & customs.

I honestly do not think that tipping/not tipping is remotely equivalent to learning about local culture, history, customs and trying to observe them, fit in and show respect.

Thais view most of us foreigners as being a bit different anyway so tippers, big or small, are rarely accorded more or less respect, based on their tipping. We all are at certain position on the respect ladder, and there we remain (with few exceptions of course).

I do agree that context is everything regarding tipping, here in Thailand, and every situation might call for little or no tipping.

I'm not familiar with the tourist/service industry wage structure here to know if there is any accounting for tips as a portion of the monthly salary. I honestly do not believe that tipping in Thailand results in lower wages. This statement is almost laughably hysterical. Any economic/employment data available shows real wages increasing steadily over time here in Thailand, and inflation is managed pretty well. And I've neither seen nor heard of any reports that tipping leads "worker surliness", apathy, de-motivation here in Thailand. That sounds almost borderline racist to me? And as a long time ignorant, arrogant resident without a Thai spouse and few foreign friends, I have not seen any raised expectations which make my life difficult or more expensive. Again, this sounds quite silly to me.

^^^^

If "throwing your money away" is such a character flaw, I wonder why Asians fill up all the casinos, from Macau to Vegas. I wonder why they are the world's biggest spenders on overpriced luxury goods, not to mention overpriced real estate the world over.

As for the rest of your points, one man does not a trend make.

By the way, I was at the new Trump hotel in Toronto the other day, and tipped the coat check girl $5 and also left $12 on a $6 tab for water. Does that make me evil? :D Service was very, very good though, and I probably got $20 worth of nuts and snacks with that $6 water.