Best program for learning Thai
 

My partner and I will be going to Thailand in August for our honeymoon. I would like to learn a little Thai before heading over there. Can anyone recommend a good software or CD-program for learning some basic Thai? I've heard good things about the Rosetta Stone program, but it's pretty expensive so am wondering if there's something decent out there that's less pricey. I'm also open to suggestions as to good books to use to learn about the Thai alphabet. I don't expect to become fluent, I'd just like to learn a few key words and phrases.

Dear Socaflyer,

I have two suggestions -- if you are in Southern California near LA (or anywhere else that's relevant here), would visit a couple of moderate or cheap Thai restaurants and ask the owner or manager or waiter about a good book or tape series he or she might recommend. They have probably been asked this before and may have good ideas on what's good and what's not so good.

Second suggestion -- the single best textbook I know of is still available through amazon -- Fundamentals of the Thai Language. The entire book will be more than you will need, but the first few lessons takes you through some basic vocabulary and explains the nature and idiosyncrasies of the language. Also helps explain the Thai alphabet and transliteration. Highly recommend. Available used through Amazon for $20 to $26.

Choke dee (good luck)!

...it sorta depends...
 

If you're hoping to be able to say a few words (thanks, hello, where is the hotel, I'd like rice, beer, etc.,etc.) I can recommend a set of 8 CDs (by Pimsleur, available from Amazon.com) that provide 16 half-hour lessons on conversational Thai. If you work at learning to imitate the CDs I think you can expect a very cordial reaction from Thais in general, provided you're in any of the larger cities.
But if you're expecting to be able to READ Thai by the time you travel...!
What I'm about to say is NOT intended to discourage you from learning Thai, but as someone who speaks several Romance languages, I must say, in trying to "learn Thai" we've set ourselves one @#$% of a task. Thai is a TONAL language, uses a non-Roman alphabet (40 consonants, 8 vowels) lacks punctuation and capitalization. The weighty consequences of those few facts will become apparent once you actually start with a text or recording.
Remember that you learned your native language by imitating others 24 hours a day, and unless you were raised in a bi-lingual/bi-cultural household, you only had to absorb ONE set of sounds. If you could repeat that environment, you'd be on equal and optimal footing with Thai as they learn their language.
For a good background on the language, try www.scholar.google.com using the search terms THAI ALPHABAET. Lots of info there!
Lastly, there is no "royal road to learning" that I know of; learning Thai will take all the time you have to give to it, and more. But reaching thus across a cultural divide is a noble endeavor and marks you as a very special ambassador, indeed.

Free lessons at www.learningthai.com

from novice to advanced :D

Agree with the tip above regarding LearningThai.com. It's excellent for rather uncomplicated learning lessons for travellers. I like that it has real-time pronunciations and that they are VERY fast loading.

Another site I quite like is http://www.podcast.net/show/5669 . It also has fast loading sound-based learning with an emphasis on very basic stuff including phrases you'd use all the time. If you try PodCast, then start at the bottom of the list of lessons (I think it's Lesson#11), as that's the most basic.

The number one problem for westerners with Thai language is the tones (as mentioned above by dcutcher).

English is essentially tone-free (though we often use tonal concepts in words to express emotions). Thai is tone-loaded . . . i.e. one word may have a 6 or 7 (or more!) totally different meanings depending on the 'tone' one uses when saying it (e.g. rising, neutral, descending tones within the pronunciation).
The first time I used the simple word "khao" (pronounced "cow", meaning, at the time, 'rice') the waiter looked at me as if I was from Mars. It has a large number of unrelated meanings ... depending on the tone. I later asked a Thai friend to help me out with the word "khao" ('rice' being a pretty fundamental word in Thailand!) and for the life of me I could hardly hear a difference in his six different tones of the word. For me ~ not necessarily others ~ the Thai tones are extremely difficult.

So, for a holiday, keep it simple and just learn some common phrases. Thai people will get past the tonal mistakes of a farang, and understand.

Cheers ...

I just checked PodCast a few minutes ago. Some of the lesons seem to be no longer interactive . . . looks like some financing issues with the website. But the majority are still working fine, and most of those are the ones you'll be interested in anyway.

Nongkhai inter alia is quite correct, the tones are the major problem for English speakers in conversational Thai. Five tones - high, rising, neutral, falling, and low. The references cited here stress the importance of tones -- the example of "cow" is a good one for rice or "him/her" or "enter" or "mountain" -- as in "zoo-land" ("Khao Din"). And of courses, the similant "gow" or the other puzzle word -- "cry" or "klai" for numerous different nouns. ("Who sells chicken eggs" is a study in the same one syllable word pronounced three different ways with different tones. Chicken is a hard "g" sound - gai, not the k or c like the other three.)

If you stick to some fairly basic sentences and questions, and say the difficult word or words in English, the non-English speaking Thai will probably be able to comprehend -- unless you are far, far off the beaten track.

Again, "choke dee"!

Socaflyer -

Don't bother wasting your time or your money.
In a few hours, even a few weekends, you won't be able to learn much that will help you.

Sure, if you want to have a little fun, learn to say the Thai equivalent of "hello/goodbye" and "how are you".
But, after that, what do you say?

You are going to have plenty of frustration just trying to understand their English, and to speak clearly enough so they can understand your English.
Don't make it worse.

There are three specific reasons I say, "Don't".

1. It takes a year or more to re-train your voice apparatus to half-way-correctly make the sounds of Thai language.
   If your sound is not correct -- and it won't be -- Thais won't understand you.
   You'll be frustrated.
   They will ... smile.
   -
2. It takes a year or more to train your ear to differentiate the sounds that Thai speakers use.
   So, on a short visit, you won't understand them at all.
   You'll be frustrated.
   They will ... smile ... and then use whatever English they can.
   -
3. Virtually all of the commercial Thai language training teaches "Central Thai".
   But, the Thais you will encounter on your honeymoon will -- most likely -- not be speaking Thai.
   Most working class, service staff speak a very different dialect, "Isaan-Lao".

I agree with dcutcher about the "very cordial reaction".
But, please note this twist on that reaction:
A waitress, for example, will say, with pleased amazement, "Oh, you can speak Thai!"
Please notice she is responding in English.
Then she will smile, as she repeats your dinner order in English .
Translation: "Thanks for trying, but, now, will you please speak English so I can figure out what it is you want."

Again, I agree with dcutcher.
How long does it take to learn everyday English conversation?
Perhaps from ages 5 to 15 or so, to learn conversation at a fluent, adult, level.
Give Thai language 10 years of total immersion, and you could be reasonably fluent, too.
I've been studying Thai for two years.
I can read and write at the second grade level.
That fits.
But between now and your August honeymoon?
Not a chance.

All my experience agrees with that observation ... except in the case of the short-time tourist.
For the short-time tourist -- such as the OP -- most Thai staff are already plenty frustrated with visitors butchering the same two dozen or so common phrases listed in all the guide books.
When Thais are frustrated, they smile.
If you attempt to speak Thai, expect lots of smiles.

Nongkhai's observations exactly fit my experiences with learning to speak and listen: "extremely difficult."
And, funny to mention that, because an analysis of "khao" was exactly the focus of my Thai lesson yesterday.
(One moment, please, while I reach for my lesson notes ...)

Depending on tone (and vowel length) here are the common meanings of "khao":

1. rice
2. white
3. he, she, them
4. mountain
5. enter, approach
6. sign, outline, framework
7. knee
8. news

I'm not trying to teach Thai to the OP, or anyone else, just to put learning Thai into perspective for the short-time tourist.

Bottom line:
Learning a few words and phrases of Thai language may be fun for you; just don't expect it to be useful during a short visit here.

If specific questions, you are welcome to send me email or private message.

-- Peter

I had great success with this set of CD's and book. I really enjoyed the convenience of listening and learning in my car.

http://www.amazon.com/Thai-Beginners...988255-0216007

Knowing just the basics made my trip a lot more enjoyable.

Easily the WORST travel advice anyone could ever give. Of course, what can one expect from someone so negative?:rolleyes: (Could someone possibly use the word "don't" more in a post?)

Learning a few words and phrases in any language should be encouraged. ^ It will be fun for you and everyone you try to converse with.

I've spent some time slowly learning some basic Thai. Although still at a beginner level, it has made my trips to Thailand MUCH more enjoyable.

People DO understand me more often than not. I can at least attempt to speak with my bf's mom (in a very rudimentary way), and it has inspired her to start learning English!

I also find that people usually answer me in Thai, not in English, and are usually quite patient and helpful when I don't understand them.

Embracing another culture works better for me than remaining fearful, negative and suspicious.

^ That is the sort of encouragement that timid (in the sense of not wanting to offend people) folk like myself need. :D And instinctively I feel it's good advice.

Now what is your take on foreigners wai-ing? Will it label me:
a. a farang dork who should stop his grotesque imitation of Thai culture and go home or
b. a friendly, if slightly misguided, sort who deserves a few points for trying?
All the advice here has been "don't". But I want to hear from someone with your attitude. :cool:

Generally, the advice to NOT wai is reasonable, but it really depends on who you are dealing with. My advice is to use it sparingly. Most times wais coming from doormen, FAs, and other service staff should be acknowledged with a nod and/or smile, but generally you shouldn't wai them unless they've done you a pretty good favor. (Even then a thank you and, sometimes, a tip will work just as well if not better.) But you really don't want to be one of those tourists who wais every time a doorman wais and opens the door.

In my case, the parents and grandparents of my Thai Significant Other merit a high wai from me, as do monks to whom I am introduced. Friends of my Thai SO get a more casual wai, although I formal it up a bit when I'm meeting someone for the first time. If I am visiting the house of someone I don't know very well, they also get a more formal wai. Other than that, smiles and head bobs get me through the day. :)

Cheeta, there is some good discussion on 'wai-ing' in this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=640811

Cheers ...

I haven't been to Thailand, but in the matter of reacting to foreigners' attempts to speak their language, the Thais may be where the Japanese were thirty years ago.

At that time, foreigners' attempts to speak Japanese often elicited panicked cries of "No Engrish! No Engrish!" In other words, many Japanese people could not believe that those sounds coming out of the foreigner's mouth were intended to be Japanese. This happened irrespective of the foreigner's level of proficiency.

Nowadays, that rarely happens, largely because the Japanese are much more accustomed to seeing foreigners around, and this is true even in smaller communities, which have probably hosted at least one JET program (a government program that places recent university graduates from English-speaking countries in high schools) participant over the past 15 years.

I had already studied Japanese for five years when I first went to Japan, but I have had the experience of studying a tonal language, Chinese, at the elementary level and trying it out in China and Taiwan.

There I found that even my rudimentary Chinese was a life-saver in certain situations, most notably when a "helpful" Taiwanese was taking me to the wrong place to catch the bus to the airport. (Due to circumstances, I had only a short time to catch my flight out.) His idea of where I should catch the bus was different from what I had read in the guidebook, and he was so sure of himself that he was blocking out my English entreaties. Finally I said very emphatically in Chinese, "Please ask someone!"

He stopped short, flagged down a policeman, and had an animated conversation with him. Finally, he admitted that I was right, that he was thinking of the way to get to the older airport.

We reached the correct bus stop with literally seconds to spare to catch the last possible bus for my flight, and I'm sure that if I hadn't been able to break through the man's surety with a few words of sharply spoken Chinese, I would have been stranded for at least another day.

HI Cheetah_SA

Here is an article I wrote several years ago about the Thai Wai you might find useful and interesting.

EVERY CULTURE HAS ITS form of greeting, a way to introduce oneself or to pay formal respects to an elder. In most cases in the western world, the greeting is a handshake, although Russia, of course, drops its 'Iron Hand' when it comes to greetings when people kiss and hug each other warmly. This is probably due to the climate, a friendly embrace being necessary to keep each other warm during the introductions. The Eskimos rub noses as that is the only part of the anatomy that is not covered by layers of polar Bear Hide, while the Maori of New Zealand charge at their guest with spears while pulling faces - a show to frighten off those whose intentions are not genuine. However the act is so amusing that most people fall about laughing at the spectacle, thereby breaking the ice and making the introduction much more enjoyable. And so it goes around the world. In Thailand, the ceremony is far more complex because the traditional form of greeting is both formal and polite with the precise degree of respect conveyed in the expression.

Known as the "Wai", the greeting is actually both warm and charming, especially when accentuated with that magical smile that is so famous in this mystical land. In general, the Wai is performed by joining the hands at the palms and raising them to a position somewhere between the chest and forehead. One should be aware of the status of the person being 'wai-ed' for the exact position of holding the palms. Good friends would position the palms somewhere in the chest area because they are equals and know each other well. The opposite of that is when wai-ing Buddha images, when the palms, cupped in the shape of a lotus blossom would be brought all the way to the forehead while bowing the head. This can be done in a number of ways, standing for example, while walking past a Buddhist temple or from a kneeling position when in the temple. Kneeling is much more formal and comprises of three sets of wais, bowing the head all the way to the floor on each occasion. This form of paying respect is also used when wai-ing the deceased; standing while a procession passes, or kneeling if the deceased is laid out, however the wai would only be performed once.

Within the family, the wai is extreme to say the least. Young children wai their parents bringing the palms all the way to the forehead as a sign of respect and obedience. As they get older the wai will be come less extreme... but not by much. And of course, the parents do not return the wai. School is much like home, a place of learning and discipline, consequently children will wai their teachers as they wai their parents and same goes for employees when meeting their employer and the Thai of all ages and rank respectfully wai to monks. In all cases (the teacher, the employer and the monk) the wai will never be returned. In informal gatherings of equals, the wai will also be performed, everyone wai-ing each other but in a relatively casual way, the palms being positioned somewhere in the chest area. This is similar to western high society where ladies will greet each other with a peck on the cheek while the men either pat a shoulder or offer a brief handshake.

The wai is taken very seriously among the Thai that is, and from this brief description you will realize the awkwardness that will be suffered by a Thai who incorrectly wais. However as a visitor you will not offend any Thai when making a wai when meeting a Thai. The Thai are very pleased when visitors make the effort to participate in their traditions, be it performing a wai greeting, or quietly observing a ceremony in a temple. It is perfectly acceptable for foreigners to shake hands when greeting the Thai as well. A nod of the head in a slight bow is also an acceptable response to a wai from, say a waiter or the doorman at the hotel.

Of course, if you are Russian, then you may try a couple of kisses on the cheek and you will probably get away with it, but go easy on the hug. The Thai are generally smaller than the average Westerner. Likewise, the Eskimos among you could risk a quick rub of noses but again, the Thai nose is generally smaller and you could get so close before touching that it would become a kiss. And of course it is possible that a Maori warrior could not get a visa because he would truly frighten the Thai consul as the Thai are extremely wary of things that resemble 'pii' (ghosts and demons).

Oh yes, I nearly forgot ... The Wai means "Hello" but it also means "Goodbye"

Hope this helps,
Randy and Ning