I don't see how being stuck in traffic jams, breathe foul air, and experience over crowdedness is "culture". Might as well take a trip to LA for that :rolleyes:

Looking at your list I feel like ie seen nothing.

I just meant upcountry in general. Things shut down earlier upcountry compared with Bangkok. I'm talking shops/malls, restaurants, transit (som lors / song taews), etc. Hang out at a bar/restaurant until midnight and there's nothing going on except for people going home. So that made me appreciate Bangkok more.

I will say that Bangkok, as a solo traveller, is not as great. Bangkok with your local Bangkokian friends/family is much better. But I think that really applies to most places in the world.

Thanks for the list transpac. There's a couple on there that I haven't seen yet.

Also would you agree that the ghost buildings are disappearing? I didn't notice any actually when I was there last week. I wasn't really looking for them, but I didn't notice any like in years past.

Why not?

Because, Bangkok with your local Bangkokian friends/family is much better.

Same could be said for any other international city...



For what you want to do, the MTR/Subway/river boat system in BKK will be just fine.

Even though I didn´t particularly enjoy BKK, I´d definitely recommend visiting for a few days to experience the place for yourself.

I did say that actually.

There's far more culture and history to take in in Cambodia and Laos, than in Thailand. Not that Thailand is not culturally interesting but a lot of it is not very accesible to those who dont speak Thai. What you get for tourist consumption ( Ayuthaya is a good example) is a lot of fake, constructed, stuff.

....And this s especially pronouncedin here in BKK, which is essentially a noveau riche,consumption focused, city. In Thailand, Sukhothai and Chiang Mai offer more interesting fare, in my view.

Curious to hear more of your view on the legit Cambodian culture accessible to travelers who don't speak Khmer. I find it's even more difficult, and with less infrastructure, in Cambodia. Further, outside of the Angkor complex and similar other temples, Thailand has much more to offer... And that's in a non-tourist bent. IMO of course.

You raise a very valid point. I speak and read French, and a lot of the accessibility comes from that fact, I realize. Cambodian contemporary culture saw an immense rennaisance under Sihanouk in the 1960s it's subsequent destruction and slow and(IMO) fascinating resurrection ( alas, not cinema, yet ) is also accessible in Phnom Penh if one looks for it. Then there is the lovely rubber town of Kampong Cham, the Battambang.... Maybe I'm biased

I don't think the infrastructure is bad at all in fact I think PP is a far pleasanter and more aesthetically appealing place than BKK.

On Angkor, Bayon etc I think the fact that it was a genuinely international project gave it an aesthetically more vibrant tone than much of the Thai reconstructions, especially in BKK, where they tend to be part of the fragile and tendentious reconstruction of the monarchist modernization project post Phibun. It is no accident that in Bangkok the national anthem is constantly played in public places, cinemas, parks ( 6 pm sharp every evening in the park near my apartment) etc... It manifests a national identity not at ease with itself, in my view. Countries at ease with national identity do not constantly force feed national symbols. This makes for a highly mediated access to Thai cultural history. All IMO of course, I am not trying to assert anything here.

Many apologies for my verbosity :eek:

You don't sound very adventurous... :p

I like Bangkok for the shopping, food, and 24/7 non-stop nature of the mega-city. I live in Cairo currently, so I'm used to hassle and pollution.

I'm in the double-digits on my trips here and I couldn't agree more.

I "liked" Bangkok the first time I visited 10+ years ago. I did a lot of touristy stuff and also saw a bit too much of the seedy stuff. The second time I came, it exhausted me. The third time, I hated it.

When I was forced to come back, I switched things up and stayed in a different place (first three stays were Sukhumvit) by the river. Liked the slower pace a bit more. Next time, I moved around again. I finally found a hotel/neighborhood that I'm comfortable with. Now it feels familiar and I'm content here - I've got my places I go for massages and personal services. I have a couple of pharmacies I go to so I can pick up stuff that's Rx only in the states (and cheaper here). I've got several malls where I enjoy shopping.

I always love cities more once I find a neighborhood... and usually don't hit my groove in a city until I've crossed off all the touristy things and settled into just "being" somewhere. Then I can really determine if I like a place or not.

BKK still is not in my top five favorite cities (probably not in my top ten). But it IS a good jumping off point for other places I like so I've learned how to make myself comfortable here.

Going way OT here, but a friend from Hong Kong visited me in Boston last year. He was curious about why there were so many US flags hoisted. Our discussion involved both Boston being such an integral part of the colonial/revolutionary war period, and that if Hong Kong had bauhinias (the flower on their flag) waving everywhere, their "caretaker" up north wouldn't be too pleased.