Thailand Again Fails FAA Inspection
Feb 27, 2019, 6:02 am
#16
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No wonder Thailand failed with the attitude shown by the Thai posters here
Thailand is not forced to submit itself for FAA inspection, it does so entirely willingly because it wants that stamp of approval (or nonstop flights to the US). The FAA is free to set whatever standards it wants in order to give that stamp of approval, it is under no obligation to be 'independent'
Thailand is not forced to submit itself for FAA inspection, it does so entirely willingly because it wants that stamp of approval (or nonstop flights to the US). The FAA is free to set whatever standards it wants in order to give that stamp of approval, it is under no obligation to be 'independent'
I would say two years is a fairly appropriate time frame? - Change has to start somewhere, and for it to be proven two years seem reasonable to me. Why is ICAO more of a political instrument than the US FAA? - at least it is not possible to exercise national bias.
Feb 27, 2019, 6:13 am
#17
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The ICAO, as most UN bodies, is essentially "toothless" and cannot enforce the implementation of the standards and recommended practices it develops. It has to rely on the national CAAs for that and, at the same time, depends on its members, such as Thailand ...
Feb 27, 2019, 6:17 am
#18
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Agree that anything remotely associated with the UN is, as you say "toothless". But what strikes me as odd is that it is only the US FAA, and not its UK, EU whatever counterparts barking at Thailand -
Feb 27, 2019, 7:38 am
#19
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No wonder Thailand failed with the attitude shown by the Thai posters here
Thailand is not forced to submit itself for FAA inspection, it does so entirely willingly because it wants that stamp of approval (or nonstop flights to the US). The FAA is free to set whatever standards it wants in order to give that stamp of approval, it is under no obligation to be 'independent'
I do not think that any poster with Thai nationality has participated in this thread!
you are right! FAA does not need to be independent...and it is pretty well known that some of the bodies of the US Government have a political agenda...and I mean in industrial policy
Maybe some of the countries in Europe and Asia should set up a body to inspect some basic standards of customer friendliness of airlines. Some of the US carriers would not be seen anymore in those countries...
Feb 27, 2019, 7:56 am
#20
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Feb 27, 2019, 11:05 pm
#21
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 905
Follow the money: taxes and fees on tickets ex BKK are the highest in the region ( yes, higher than Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong). That’s why you get such a stunning, seamless experience using the airport; such great comfort, wonderful speedy immigration, flawless baggage handling, exquisite ground transportation/ links.; landing fees are very high also.
TG has ludicrously high prices ex BKK, probably necessary to support the great bloated bureaucracy it employs. And still they bleed cash.
The first time they failed this assessment assurances were made by the incoming PM that things would be fixed in a flash. No surprise that nothing has improved and failed again. Money was spent but no improvement evident.
But you have to remember that those responsible include some who had oversight of/responsibility for safety at the time of the One, Two, Go crash at Phuket....and what an utter, miserable, disgraceful failure of public policy it was that they were permitted to fly, EVER. As most of you will recall, the owner was a very close associate of some of those with responsibility, and powerful others. But as with Santika ( at least initially) and Red Bull ( to this day) some are untouchable.
TG has ludicrously high prices ex BKK, probably necessary to support the great bloated bureaucracy it employs. And still they bleed cash.
The first time they failed this assessment assurances were made by the incoming PM that things would be fixed in a flash. No surprise that nothing has improved and failed again. Money was spent but no improvement evident.
But you have to remember that those responsible include some who had oversight of/responsibility for safety at the time of the One, Two, Go crash at Phuket....and what an utter, miserable, disgraceful failure of public policy it was that they were permitted to fly, EVER. As most of you will recall, the owner was a very close associate of some of those with responsibility, and powerful others. But as with Santika ( at least initially) and Red Bull ( to this day) some are untouchable.
Feb 27, 2019, 11:27 pm
#22
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Follow the money: taxes and fees on tickets ex BKK are the highest in the region ( yes, higher than Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong). That’s why you get such a stunning, seamless experience using the airport; such great comfort, wonderful speedy immigration, flawless baggage handling, exquisite ground transportation/ links.; landing fees are very high also.
TG has ludicrously high prices ex BKK, probably necessary to support the great bloated bureaucracy it employs. And still they bleed cash.
The first time they failed this assessment assurances were made by the incoming PM that things would be fixed in a flash. No surprise that nothing has improved and failed again. Money was spent but no improvement evident.
But you have to remember that those responsible include some who had oversight of/responsibility for safety at the time of the One, Two, Go crash at Phuket....and what an utter, miserable, disgraceful failure of public policy it was that they were permitted to fly, EVER. As most of you will recall, the owner was a very close associate of some of those with responsibility, and powerful others. But as with Santika ( at least initially) and Red Bull ( to this day) some are untouchable.
TG has ludicrously high prices ex BKK, probably necessary to support the great bloated bureaucracy it employs. And still they bleed cash.
The first time they failed this assessment assurances were made by the incoming PM that things would be fixed in a flash. No surprise that nothing has improved and failed again. Money was spent but no improvement evident.
But you have to remember that those responsible include some who had oversight of/responsibility for safety at the time of the One, Two, Go crash at Phuket....and what an utter, miserable, disgraceful failure of public policy it was that they were permitted to fly, EVER. As most of you will recall, the owner was a very close associate of some of those with responsibility, and powerful others. But as with Santika ( at least initially) and Red Bull ( to this day) some are untouchable.
Feb 27, 2019, 11:30 pm
#23
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Feb 28, 2019, 2:59 am
#24
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
US Security Probably the Issue
Thailand is probably the most beloved county by the US and the people of the US. The FAA is probably the least political agency in the US. The US and US aircraft have been the most frequent targets of terrorism.
With Pan Am 103 the Frankfurt to Lonndon to Detroit flight, I believe the bomb was put on the plane in Frankfurt, so that helps to explain why US is so interested in security in other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103
Then there is September 11, 2001 where several planes were crashed into major US buildings. There is a real security concern.
Europe has not seen the airline terrorism that the US has faced.
Thailand and the Phillipines hold a special place in the heart of Americans.
If there is any criticism of the FAA, it should be that they need to work harder with the Thai goverment to address and correct all issues.
United Airlines probably could not commence nonstop service to Thailand because of the issue.
I will complain to the FAA and encourage others to also, seeking the FAA to assist Thailand in resolving all issues to permit nonstop flights to the US.
With Pan Am 103 the Frankfurt to Lonndon to Detroit flight, I believe the bomb was put on the plane in Frankfurt, so that helps to explain why US is so interested in security in other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103
Then there is September 11, 2001 where several planes were crashed into major US buildings. There is a real security concern.
Europe has not seen the airline terrorism that the US has faced.
Thailand and the Phillipines hold a special place in the heart of Americans.
If there is any criticism of the FAA, it should be that they need to work harder with the Thai goverment to address and correct all issues.
United Airlines probably could not commence nonstop service to Thailand because of the issue.
I will complain to the FAA and encourage others to also, seeking the FAA to assist Thailand in resolving all issues to permit nonstop flights to the US.
Feb 28, 2019, 3:00 am
#25
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,481
From my point of view the real problem is not that the FAA inspection found 26 safety issues. In aviation it's about improvement after things went wrong. A lot - maybe the most - of aviation safety rules are based on bad experience. The FAA has some of the best experts in aviation safety. Not because they are smart (of course they are smart), but because of their big experience of things going wrong before. And that is because the US is the biggest aviation market.
The real problem is, that Thailand failed again and even about areas, which were the reasons for failing ICAO and FAA audits before. If you were told and if you know the number of staff assigned to aviation safety you need, there is no excuse, if you fail having that number of staff in the next audit. That has nothing to do with politics or economic concerns outside of Thailand.
The FAA will hand over the detailed audit report to the Thai government, so I don't see much room for manipulation. If one or some of the 26 safety issues are not really based on safety concerns, the Thai government is free to start a discussion about that. They didn't do that before, so I don't expect that now.
The real problem is, that Thailand failed again and even about areas, which were the reasons for failing ICAO and FAA audits before. If you were told and if you know the number of staff assigned to aviation safety you need, there is no excuse, if you fail having that number of staff in the next audit. That has nothing to do with politics or economic concerns outside of Thailand.
The FAA will hand over the detailed audit report to the Thai government, so I don't see much room for manipulation. If one or some of the 26 safety issues are not really based on safety concerns, the Thai government is free to start a discussion about that. They didn't do that before, so I don't expect that now.
Feb 28, 2019, 3:19 am
#26
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Feb 28, 2019, 3:28 am
#27
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
Will do. The US Government for the past two years has been in a state of confusion. I will also contact my US Congressperson and encourage all US residents to contact their Member of Congress and FAA to assist Thailand in addressing all issue. We need nonstop flights from the US to Thailand.
Feb 28, 2019, 3:36 am
#28
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Will do. The US Government for the past two years has been in a state of confusion. I will also contact my US Congressperson and encourage all US residents to contact their Member of Congress and FAA to assist Thailand in addressing all issue. We need nonstop flights from the US to Thailand.
Feb 28, 2019, 4:08 am
#29
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
It is for real. There is a problem with the Thai goverment and their security operations. If people US residents contact their Member of Congress and complain, the Congressperson will generally send a letter to the FAA asking for a response. The FAA responds to the Member of Congress when they make an inquiry. If there are enough complaints the FAA will try to do something to get the Congress members off their back. I have held elective office in the US. I have dealt with a lot of lobbying and complaints to Members of Congress and government agencies. You can complain on Flyertalk and get little results, except from the airlines. But if you want government action, complain to your elected representative and the government agency, the FAA. If the FAA tries to assist the Thai goverment and Thai ignores the advice, the FAA may try to protect its reputation and embarass the Thai government into acting. Yes its a long process, but whining on Flyertalk alone does not resolve the problem.
If the people here on Flyertalk complained more often to the US Department of Transportation or the US FAA, in the long run you would get better results. When that does not work I file a lawsuit in court. But the Thai security issue does not impact me enought to justify legal action in court.
If the people here on Flyertalk complained more often to the US Department of Transportation or the US FAA, in the long run you would get better results. When that does not work I file a lawsuit in court. But the Thai security issue does not impact me enought to justify legal action in court.
Last edited by BF263533; Feb 28, 2019 at 4:13 am
Feb 28, 2019, 4:11 am
#30
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Another typical American (sorry for stereotyping) attitude acting as if the US is the centre of the universe and have ultimate power over the rest of the world.
Anyway, good luck with your quest.
Anyway, good luck with your quest.