Lisbon e-gates /TAP

Old Mar 12, 19, 8:55 pm
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Lisbon e-gates /TAP

I always dread passport control when flying through Lisbon. Usually 40-60 minutes. They use to call people whose flight would depart soon but not anymore. Was there last summer and saw a sign about expanding use of the automated border control gates to other nationalities, including US passports. Has any US passport holder been able to use it in any circumstance? Is it only if you used Lisbon to enter Schengen Area? I can’t find any info online. Thank you!
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Old Mar 13, 19, 8:00 am
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Originally Posted by Basanez View Post
I always dread passport control when flying through Lisbon. Usually 40-60 minutes. They use to call people whose flight would depart soon but not anymore. Was there last summer and saw a sign about expanding use of the automated border control gates to other nationalities, including US passports. Has any US passport holder been able to use it in any circumstance? Is it only if you used Lisbon to enter Schengen Area? I can’t find any info online. Thank you!
Some non-EU/EEC passport holders (USA/CAN/BRL/...) can use the e-Gates outbound if you entered Schengen through LIS.
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Old Mar 13, 19, 9:32 am
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Looks like I’ll be making the line since I won’t be entering through Lisbon. I appreciate your reply. Thank you!
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Old Jul 23, 19, 3:18 pm
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Hello,

I am sorry to “revive” this thread, but I have a question about the Exit E-Gates (Automated Border Control) at Lisbon Airport, because I just think that unintentionally I made a mistake on my last travel departing from Lisbon and out of Schengen area, and now I am afraid I will have some future “issues” when returning on vaccation to Europe.

I am from Brazil and I have a valid Brazilian passport. Last june, I traveled for leisure to Europe, flying with TAP Portugal, from São Paulo (GRU) to Paris (ORY), conecting in Lisbon (Flights TP 082 and TP 434) .

I arrived in Lisbon on 10/June/2019 and passed through passport control without any problem. My passport was stamped as usual and then I took my flight to Paris.

Ten days later, on 19/June/2019, I returned to Brazil, from Paris (ORY) to São Paulo (GRU), connecting again in Lisbon (Flights TP 431 and TP 087).

When I arrived at the passport control at Lisbon airport to exit Schengen area, I was direceted to the E-Gates by an airport staff member, who helped me to use the E-gates. I have passed through the E-Gates without any problems, but then nothing was told about stamping or not stamping my passport for exiting Schengen zone. And nobody stpoped me to stamp my passport.

And I did not question anybody, since I thoght it was ok to go after passing by the E-gates and because I just needed to go to the boarding gate to not lose my flight back to Brazil.

But now, I was searching for mor info about the automated borded control and I found some documents that says that nationals from other countries other than UE/EEA/CH need to have their passport stamped even when exiting via E-gates.

On the other hand, I found some documents that do not say nothing about the need to stamp the passport.

I have even read the EU regulations (EU) 2016/339, (EU) 2017/2225 and (EU) 2017/2226, but I could not understand the complete reach of these regulations regarding the need to stamp or not the passport after passing by an E-Gate. It seems that the stamping will be not needed anymore, but I could not guess when these changes will take effect.

I am really concerned about this because I will return to Europe for may vaccation in February/2020, with entry in Schengen Zone by Germany (Munich) and I am now without the exit stamp in my passport.

If the exit stamp is still needed, what should I do to prove that I had returned to my country on 19/June/2019, to avoid trouble when passing by entry passport control in near future?

Best regards,

Criske

Last edited by criske; Jul 23, 19 at 4:16 pm
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Old Jul 24, 19, 1:45 am
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Theoretically, you needed a stamp after passing through e-gates. What's more important, though, is that your passport was scanned by the gate, which is more important than the stamp. I would not expect you to have any problems because you didn't get a stamp.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 11:41 am
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Originally Posted by Palal View Post
Theoretically, you needed a stamp after passing through e-gates. What's more important, though, is that your passport was scanned by the gate, which is more important than the stamp. I would not expect you to have any problems because you didn't get a stamp.

Thank you for your answer! After reading so many articles in a dozen web sites, I also believe that my passaport should have been stamped even after the E-gates, although nobody told me anything about this and no SEF officer came after me as I was liberated by the E-gate. I hope that my Schengen exit on 19/JUN/2019 was corretly registered by the scanner.

Unfortunately, I am stil aprehensive with future passaport controls in Europe, as I come from
a possíble “flaged” country.

But “just in case”, I will keep my boarding pass for TP 087, I think forever, as well my Miles and More account proving the miles credit for this flight ! I will even keep a PDF copy of them to avoid the fading ink!

Best regards,

Criske
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Old Jul 24, 19, 2:27 pm
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If they didn't record it, the gates would not have opened.
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Old Jul 24, 19, 2:43 pm
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The egates are connected to the SIS so a timestamp of your departure has been recorded. Munichi mmigration doesn't match each entry stamp in your passport. Instead they scan your passport and wait what the SIS has to say about you
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Old Jul 24, 19, 6:32 pm
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
The egates are connected to the SIS so a timestamp of your departure has been recorded. Munichi mmigration doesn't match each entry stamp in your passport. Instead they scan your passport and wait what the SIS has to say about you
Oliver2002,

Good to know about that, because reading those EU regulations, I was not sure if the e-gates could record the exit date to SIS.

My previous experiences in München going through passaport control were always smooth. Not so much in Frankfurt! 😐😐 (but next time will be only MUC and ZRH).

Best regards,

Criske

Last edited by criske; Jul 25, 19 at 11:54 am
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Old Jul 26, 19, 3:53 am
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While Portugal's system would know the FTer had entered and exited Schengen on the Brazilian passport in Portugal, the other Schengen countries generally wouldn't be able to readily recognize that the FTer had entered and exited the Schengen area via Portugal without looking at Schengen stamps; and its those other countries which may make an issue about the lack of a Schengen country exit stamp indicating timely departure from the Schengen zone.

Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
The egates are connected to the SIS so a timestamp of your departure has been recorded. Munichi mmigration doesn't match each entry stamp in your passport. Instead they scan your passport and wait what the SIS has to say about you
Have you ever requested the SIS information that may be had on you to see what is there, how complete/incomplete it may be versus your expectations, and how accurate/inaccurate it is with what may or may not be there?

I'm pretty sure each Schengen country has something like this that can be used:

https://polisen.se/siteassets/blanke...tter-188-7.pdf

Entry/Exit System is not SIS, at least not at this point; and there is still stuff left to be done for EES. National entry/exit systems aren't all interconnected across the zone and eu-LISA's EES is not done.
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Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 27, 19 at 3:36 am
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Old Jul 27, 19, 12:50 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
While Portugal's system would know the FTer had entered and exited Schengen on the Brazilian passport in Portugal, the other Schengen countries generally wouldn't be able to readily recognize that the FTer had entered and exited the Schengen area via Portugal without looking at Schengen stamps; and its those other countries which may make an issue about the lack of a Schengen country exit stamp indicating timely departure from the Schengen zone.



Have you ever requested the SIS information that may be had on you to see what is there, how complete/incomplete it may be versus your expectations, and how accurate/inaccurate it is with what may or may not be there?

I'm pretty sure each Schengen country has something like this that can be used:

https://polisen.se/siteassets/blanke...tter-188-7.pdf

Entry/Exit System is not SIS, at least not at this point; and there is still stuff left to be done for EES. National entry/exit systems aren't all interconnected across the zone and eu-LISA's EES is not done.

I have read about the possibility to ask the authorities of each EU country about the infirmation recorded on SIS about me, but I don’t know if I, as a Brazilian citzen, am entitled to ask about this information and, if it is the case, if I can ask for retification or correction.

I have even found the above form in Portuguese on SEF website (immigration and board service in Portugal), but I am not sure if I can use it and if I can send to them from Brazil.

In any case, portuguese bureaucracy is something umbelievabe! I have questioned ANA (Lisbon Airport Administation, not the Japanese Airline) about this issue and they said they did not know nothing about it, and said I shoud address the question to SEF. And I sent my question to SEF and they answered with an automated e-mail, which has nothing to do with my question, addressing me to the airline (TAP), who, of course, will not know how to answer!

I can’t believe I will have to solve this problem caused by the airport imigration staff by myself, I don’t know even where to begin! (the problem, by the way, is extend to my mother who was with me and has the same issue)!

I have already a LH P ticket issued for February/2020, and now I am even afraid to board the plane and have issues entering in Munich! 😳😳

Can the boarding passes for TP 087 on 19/06/2019 be accepted as a proof of my exit from EU after 10 days of my entry date?

Last edited by criske; Jul 27, 19 at 7:04 pm
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Old Jul 27, 19, 11:01 pm
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Originally Posted by criske

I can’t believe I will have to solve this problem caused by the airport imigration staff by myself, I don’t know even where to begin! (the problem, by the way, is extend to my mother

I have already a LH P ticket issued for February/2020, and now I am even afraid to board the plane and have issues entering in Munich! 😳😳

Can the boarding passes for TP 087 on 19/06/2019 be accepted as a proof of my exit from EU after 10 days of my entry date?
If Brazil or other countries outside of the Schengen area have stamped your Brazilian passport that you will use on your next trips to Schengen countries, you will almost certainly be ok.

Lots of times German passport control encounters incidents where a Schengen stamp is missing (because some Schengen country failed to stamp the relevant passport in or out) and yet the passport control authorities there let it go when confidently told by the passenger how, where and when they last traveled in/out of the Schengen zone. Could they ask the passenger for evidence of the passenger having been outside of the Schengen zone when and where claimed by the passenger? Sure, but they most commonly don’t ask for it and are more likely to just ask about your trip out of the Schengen zone and its timing.

In other words, don’t worry too much as it generally works out just fine. My US passports have been a mess of stamps and I’ve had no major problem from it even as my stamp history is fragmentary and has mislead passport control in Germany and elsewhere in the Schengen zone to briefly entertain the possibility of having found someone with an overstay violation. If you carry an electronic device with ready access to your old emails, old travel itineraries and old PDF or mobile app boarding passes, then you are probably already in possession of enough evidence to satisfy most any suspicion of an overstay.

German passport control are used to hearing, for example, that the French, Italian, Portuguese or Dutch passport control failed to stamp in or out a passenger. If a problem arises at MUC/FRA passport control over the stamp history, showing the non-Schengen-to-Germany boarding pass with which you arrived in Germany would almost certainly be more than enough to satisfy the average passport control employee there since it shows you just came into Schengen from beyond the Schengen area and indicates (in a way that is favorable for you) that the passport stamp history is incongruent with your travels.

Not necessary to do the following, but I would try to avoid any passport control booth where there are two border control authorities working the same passenger together, since then it’s more likely you would be encountering a trainee and supervisor and together they may want to act tougher or go through more motions than they would otherwise if working alone and having been at the job for a long time already.

If I were in your situation, I wouldn’t worry at all and would just look forward to the Feb 2020 trip.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 27, 19 at 11:16 pm
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Old Jul 29, 19, 4:38 am
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Again, no German Federal Police Officers will leaf thru your passport and match each entry and exit stamp. Take a chill pill. The Germans will only get nervous if the system tells them that you overstayed your last visa. Such overstay is recorded only when an authorised official noticed your overstay when you left the EEA/Schengen and entered an 'Entry Ban' into the SIS. i.e. someone has to get active and put something into SIS. There is no one systematically analysing all entries to see if they exited.
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Old Jul 29, 19, 5:29 am
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Thank you both again for the explanations.

From all my travels to/out of EU, I was sure that the passport stamps would be something only secondary to the recorded info on entry/exit taken during passport scanning (both personal or automated checks) and I always thought that these entry/exit data would be available to all EU/Schengen countries by an online system. I did not know that Entry/Exit System was not yet completely integrated.

My travel pattern is clearly visible from my stamps: two TATL travel per year, one in JAN/FEB and the other in OCT/NOV, just for leisure/vacation. Only this year I changed October for June. I have never overstayed (maximum stay was 31 days).

But I am seriously considering to take a flight to Montevideo just for a weekend in the next month just to have a entry/exit stamp on my passport following the Lisbon mess. It is a short haul flight (1h30 min), I would not have to ask for a work leave and I would have a weekend full of high quality entrecots and original dulce de leche!

Thank you again and best regards,

Criske
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Old Jul 29, 19, 7:12 am
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Originally Posted by criske View Post

Thank you for your answer! After reading so many articles in a dozen web sites, I also believe that my passaport should have been stamped even after the E-gates, although nobody told me anything about this and no SEF officer came after me as I was liberated by the E-gate. I hope that my Schengen exit on 19/JUN/2019 was corretly registered by the scanner.
First of all, a "dozen web sites" indicate that not all (or any?) of these websites are official, up-to-date sources of information.

If a passenger needed to have a wet-ink stamp placed in their passport, then they will be required to deal with an agent and NOT directed to use an e-gate. No airport or national border service agency is going to add extra overhead and lines by requiring any category of passenger to pass through 2 sets of exit checks when one specific one is required. If a certain nationality needs to see an agent, then their attempts to use an e-gate would fail. No airport anywhere is designed in such a manner that passengers can follow the "wrong" route, or that they require passengers to double back and try and find someone to stamp the passport they already exited on.

And besides - an e-gate keeps an electronic record, so the relevant authorities all through the Schengen zone know exactly when and where you left the Schengen zone, in a way that simply isn't possible with a wet-ink stamp in your passport (then they can only "check" that you left by having your passport in their hands, and leafing through to find the stamp).
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