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-   -   Warning: TAP Changes Fare Class of Discount Tickets (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tap-air-portugal-miles-go/1859313-warning-tap-changes-fare-class-discount-tickets.html)

1353513636 Aug 6, 17 10:54 pm

Warning: TAP Changes Fare Class of Discount Tickets
 
I purchased a discount ticket on TP from the US website as I did not need checked luggage for the trip; according to ITA Matrix, the fare class of the ticket available at the discount price was U. Upon confirmation, I called TP and asked for a copy of the receipt emailed; they emailed me the Amadeus Travel Document that looks like the below (obviously that's not exactly what I was sent, the fare class and fare basis are the same as original, everything else changed).


FROM /TO FLIGHT CL DATE DEP FARE BASIS NVB NVA BAG ST

LONDON HEATHROW TP 917 U 09APR 2125 U15DSC0C 09APR 09APR 30K OK
TERMINAL:2
BANGKOK SEAT: 33A ARRIVAL TIME: 1500 ARRIVAL DATE: 10APR
SUVARNABHUMI
INTL


The flight credited as E class and earned only 10% miles (U class earns 50% in most programs and E earns 0-10% in most programs). I contacted my FFP who told me TP reported the flight was booked in E class. It took me several phone calls and emails to get them to honor the 50% mileage for U class; several agents told me TP reported it as E class and there was nothing they could do.

Buyer beware, if you book a discount ticket you will likely earn based on O, E, T classes even if the fare class you purchase is different.

EDIT: As an aside, does anyone know what NVA and NVB mean?

Mwenenzi Aug 6, 17 10:59 pm

Was it a codeshare?

1353513636 Aug 6, 17 11:03 pm


Originally Posted by Mwenenzi (Post 28656691)
Was it a codeshare?

Nope, TP operated, TP coded, purchased from TP website.

(I changed the flight info for privacy reasons, obviously I did not fly TP from London to Bangkok)

irishguy28 Aug 7, 17 4:23 am


Originally Posted by 1353513636 (Post 28656673)
EDIT: As an aside, does anyone know what NVA and NVB mean?

Not valid after; not valid before

oliver2002 Aug 7, 17 10:30 am

TP 917 usually flies ZRH-OPO. TP has no U fares filed from LHR to BKK. If you throw garbage details at us there is little one can do to look up the real story....

view Aug 7, 17 3:20 pm

This makes no sense at all - TAP does not fly to Bangkok. It could be a code share or OP has some serious typos, e.g. the booking is for TG917.

1353513636 Aug 7, 17 10:13 pm

I said I changed the information of the flight in the original post but here's the original if it matters so much:

LISBON AIRPORT TP 562 U 30MAY 0820 U15DSC0C 30MAY 30MAY 0PC OK
TERMINAL:1
HAMBURG HAMBURG ARRIVAL TIME: 1235 ARRIVAL DATE: 30MAY
TERMINAL:2

irishguy28 Aug 8, 17 1:19 am

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by 1353513636 (Post 28660998)
I said I changed the information of the flight in the original post but here's the original if it matters so much:

LISBON AIRPORT TP 562 U 30MAY 0820 U15DSC0C 30MAY 30MAY 0PC OK
TERMINAL:1
HAMBURG HAMBURG ARRIVAL TIME: 1235 ARRIVAL DATE: 30MAY
TERMINAL:2

You booked a "Discount" fare, as indicated by the "DSC" in the fare basis. As such, you earn 10% of the miles.

1353513636 Aug 8, 17 10:18 am


Originally Posted by irishguy28 (Post 28661404)
You booked a "Discount" fare, as indicated by the "DSC" in the fare basis. As such, you earn 10% of the miles.

I was under the impression that I should earn bases on the fare class according to the chart on the website of the partner airline if crediting to a partner program.

irishguy28 Aug 8, 17 10:25 am

Which programme are you earning in? [You certainly do not appear to like volunteering information!!!]

You should be warned, though, that Star Alliance has form in "translating" from one class to another, most visibly when on a codeshare - and always in a way that earns you fewer miles.

(I don't think it's surprising that a discount fare that earns a paltry rate in the native FFP of the operating airline wouldn't similarly be translated to a "lesser" fare in a partner. If it's any consolation, the same has happened to me since KLM moved to a similar fare family as TAP. On KLM, you can buy any of the fare classes in Light, Basic or Flex categories - and other Skyteam partners no longer give miles for some tickets, although nominally in an earning fare class, because they are "Light" tickets).

Xandrios Aug 10, 17 12:39 pm

I would agree that normally the earning rules on the operator website are just that - earnings when crediting to the operators FF programme. To be ignored when crediting to another *A programme.

When crediting to another program, eg UA, their crediting rules should be used. And if the flight was booked in U, it makes no sense to me that it would be credited as an E flight.

However, what is possible is that the fare code for the trip is not the same as the fare code for the individual flight segments. Did you happen to verify that all of them were U class?

1353513636 Aug 10, 17 1:27 pm


Originally Posted by Xandrios (Post 28673068)
I would agree that normally the earning rules on the operator website are just that - earnings when crediting to the operators FF programme. To be ignored when crediting to another *A programme.

When crediting to another program, eg UA, their crediting rules should be used. And if the flight was booked in U, it makes no sense to me that it would be credited as an E flight.

However, what is possible is that the fare code for the trip is not the same as the fare code for the individual flight segments. Did you happen to verify that all of them were U class?

I posted what TP sent. The itinerary was just that flight. Is it possible that the fare class for the flight segment varies from the full itinerary.

I was crediting to Asiana Club. I recall a thread in the TK forum describing similar behavior from TP when crediting to TK so this seems to be widespread behavior on the part of TP.

irishguy28 Aug 11, 17 5:00 am

I know that this has not yet appeared in partners' tables - because they still cling to the "traditional" fare table - but TAP has moved onwards.

They still have a hierarchy of fares classes (such as Y/B/M/H at the top as the most expensive, and O/E/T at the bottom, as the least expensive) - - but they now sell variations within each fare basis.

And it is the "variation" that now matters most.

It is now possible, for each fare class, to decide whether to buy it as "Discount", "Basic", "Classic" or "Plus". This decision is what determines, in TAP's view, what services are provided - whether you get baggage allowance, whether you can select a seat for free, whether you can cancel - and, crucially, what miles you get.

TAP no longer awards miles based on the fare basis "Y", "B", "M", "U"....."O", "E", or "T". They award miles based on whether you then opted for "Discount", "Basic", "Classic" or "Plus".

So, you could buy a "Y" fare (already very expensive) but as a "Discount" fare - and receive no luggage, 10% miles from TAP, etc. You could by an "O" fare (one of the cheaper ones), but as a "Classic" (and get 70% miles) or "Plus" (and get 100% miles).

Therefore, the mileage tables for most partners are currently "wrong", but it will probably take time for all partners to change to adapt to this new style of fare selling. But, in the meantime, it probably appears that - whether at the StarNet level, or whether TAP do it themselves - they "advertise" the fare basis to external partners as being something more appropriate to your choice of "Discount", "Basic", "Classic" or "Plus", rather than your original choice of "U". (Within TAP, the choice of "U" can't yet tell you whether you should earn 10%, 40%, 70% or 100% miles).

I know this is all super opaque and not customer-friendly - but at least this should give you some feel as to why, perhaps, your "U" didn't earn you the 50% that Asiana promised, because TAP have effectively withdrawn from the "old" system of using a fixed letter to denote a fixed earning.


See the table of TAP fare families here: https://www.flytap.com/en-nl/booking...n/tap-products

From a discussion earlier showing the new fare families in the form of actual filed fare bases:

In each fare basis, you need to look for "DSC" (Discount), "BSC" (Basic) "CLC" (Classic) "PLU" (Plus). (The business-class fares have "EXE" (Executive) or "TOP" (Top Executive).

I have highlighted the four "U" fares - U15PLU0A on line 42, the U Basic and U Classic on lines 56 & 57, and yours - U Discount - on line 61, showing their hierarchy in a listing of the 68 available fares on this route at this time.


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 27702336)
Yep, they have switched to a 3 letter code in the fare basis like the LH group.

Code:

04JAN17**04JAN17/TP LISBER/NSP;EH/TPM  1433/MPM  1719                         
LN FARE BASIS    OW  EUR  RT  B PEN  DATES/DAYS  AP MIN MAX R               
01+C15TOP0A      772      1544 C  -    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
02+C15EXE0A      722      1444 C  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
03+Y15PLU0A      551      1102 Y  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
04+Y15CLC0A      501      1002 Y NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
05+Y15BSC0A      496      992 Y NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
06+D15TOP0A      492      984 D  -    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
07+Y15DSC0A      481      962 Y NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
08+B15PLU0A      470      940 B  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
09+D15EXE0A      442      884 D  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
10+B15CLC0A      420      840 B NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
11+B15BSC0A      415      830 B NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
12+B15DSC0A      400      800 B NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
13+M15PLU0A      400      800 M  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
14+M15CLC0A      350      700 M NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
15+M15BSC0A      345      690 M NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
16+S15PLU0A      340      680 S  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
17+M15DSC0A      330      660 M NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
18+S15CLC0A      290      580 S NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
19+H15PLU0A      290      580 H  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
>                                                PAGE  2/ 5                   
>m
04JAN17**04JAN17/TP LISBER/NSP;EH/TPM  1433/MPM  1719                         
LN FARE BASIS    OW  EUR  RT  B PEN  DATES/DAYS  AP MIN MAX R               
20+S15BSC0A      285      570 S NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
21+S15DSC0A      270      540 S NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
22+Z15TOP0A      268      536 Z  -    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
23+Q15PLU0A      242      484 Q  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
24+H15CLC0A      240      480 H NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
25+H15BSC0A      235      470 H NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
26+H15DSC0A      220      440 H NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
27+Z15EXE0A      218      436 Z  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
28+V15PLU0A      205      410 V  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
29+Q15CLC0A      192      384 Q NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
30+W15PLU0A      189      378 W  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
31+Q15BSC0A      187      374 Q NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
32+Q15DSC0A      172      344 Q NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
33+A15PLU0A      167      334 A  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
34+K15PLU0A      157      314 K  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
35+V15CLC0A      155      310 V NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
36+V15BSC0A      150      300 V NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
37+J15TOP0A      143      286 J  -    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
38+W15CLC0A      139      278 W NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
>                                                PAGE  3/ 5                   
>m
04JAN17**04JAN17/TP LISBER/NSP;EH/TPM  1433/MPM  1719                         
LN FARE BASIS    OW  EUR  RT  B PEN  DATES/DAYS  AP MIN MAX R               
39+L15PLU0A      138      276 L  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
40+V15DSC0A      135      270 V NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
41+W15BSC0A      134      268 W NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
42+U15PLU0A      126      252 U  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R             
43+W15DSC0A      119      238 W NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
44+A15CLC0A      117      234 A NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
45+A15BSC0A      112      224 A NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
46+E15PLU0A      111      222 E  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
47+K15CLC0A      107      214 K NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
48+K15BSC0A      102      204 K NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
49+T15PLU0A      101      202 T  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
50+A15DSC0A        97      194 A NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
51+J15EXE0A        93      186 J  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
52+L15CLC0A        88      176 L NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
53+O15PLU0A        88      176 O  +    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
54+K15DSC0A        87      174 K NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
55+L15BSC0A        83      166 L NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
56+U15CLC0A        76      152 U NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
57+U15BSC0A        71      142 U NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R
             
>                                                PAGE  4/ 5                   
>m
04JAN17**04JAN17/TP LISBER/NSP;EH/TPM  1433/MPM  1719                         
LN FARE BASIS    OW  EUR  RT  B PEN  DATES/DAYS  AP MIN MAX R               
58+L15DSC0A        68      136 L NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
59+E15CLC0A        61      122 E NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
60+E15BSC0A        56      112 E NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
61+U15DSC0A        56      112 U NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
62+T15CLC0A        51      102 T NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
63+T15BSC0A        46        92 T NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
64+E15DSC0A        41        82 E NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
65+O15CLC0A        38        76 O NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
66+O15BSC0A        33        66 O NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
67+T15DSC0A        31        62 T NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R               
68+O15DSC0A        18        36 O NRF    -    -  + -  -  -  R



mmff Aug 11, 17 8:51 am


Originally Posted by irishguy28 (Post 28675952)
It is now possible, for each fare class, to decide whether to buy it as "Discount", "Basic", "Classic" or "Plus". This decision is what determines, in TAP's view, what services are provided - whether you get baggage allowance, whether you can select a seat for free, whether you can cancel - and, crucially, what miles you get.

This only applies to TP's FFP Victoria. The FFP sets the earnings for each fare, not the airline.

irishguy28 Aug 11, 17 8:54 am


Originally Posted by mmff (Post 28676654)
This only applies to TP's FFP Victoria. The FFP sets the earnings for each fare, not the airline.

Yes, but you can surely appreciate that there is a disconnect between the partner earnings tables (which relate to an old fare structure) and the current TAP situation.

I agree that everyone should update their tables ASAP and be upfront and clear about what earning is going to be - but experience from Flying Blue - which, I accept, is a different alliance, but still - shows that partners will often drag their feet in updating earnings tables to reflect new fare structures.

That said, *A has its own neuroses when it comes to earning, such as the spread of business class fares that earn no miles. (Lufthansa's P earns 0% in more *A programmes than those for which it earns 100%. There's even one that gives it 70%. Some of those programmes that give 0% for P give 100% for the Lufthansa discount premium economy N fare!)


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