Thoughts on a "which airline for me?" type forum?
 

I admit this is not real well thought out in that I haven't gone through and come up with myriad examples of threads that illustrate the need for this, but it does strike me that we don't really have a forum that helps people when they're trying to either pick an airline/alliance or to switch to a different carrier/alliance.

I frequently see threads that say something like: "UA 1K thinking of switching to CO. What should I know?" Due to our rules against cross-posting, this thread can only be posted in UA or CO, and which forum it's posted in is likely to bring very different answers as the OP is unlikely to get many answers from CO fliers in UA and vice versa. To get the complete picture, s/he really needs a balance of answers from fliers in both programs.

New members/fliers who have no idea which of any number of carriers they should try and stick with could also use this thread to post their travel patterns and solicit advice on which carrier would be right for them. It seems this would be particularly helpful to new folks as they can't post their question in six forums, when they perhaps feel they have six options.

Having a forum that consolidates these types of questions would also make searching easier for others coming along with the same questions as there would be only one forum to search in as opposed to two or more.

As I said, I haven't done any research, but it does strike me as something that could be useful and perhaps worth considering.

I'd like for you to continue with this dialogue. It's along the lines of something I've been toying around with for some time now and Thanks l'etoile for the dialogue.

What I've been thinking is recruiting a similar type of volunteer, like our current volunteer moderators who would function solely as "experts." The concept is similar the the "Genius Bar" at various Apple stores in that for these types of questions that any member, new or not could drop in with a question and any number of somewhat "qualified" experts would offer up their advice. While this type of advice is certainly available on all the forums of FT, this situation would and could be very appealing to the newbie and as noted, could assist in cross posting type situations. As well, it could certainly make a nice name for FT to be the first to adopt a "Genius Bar" to a travel forum for miles and points, etc.

Thoughts?

Good idea - I'd extend it to Hotel and Rental Car programs also - since there are regularly posts of a similar nature in those forums.

While I understand the desire and applaud the goal to me this seems somewhat like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how to fish.

I'll all for encouraging the sharing of FFP/FFM knowledge and is what I try to do where able on FT but I wonder if such a forum could possibly discourage newbies from investing the time to study the various FFP and judge for themselves which one works best for their travel needs. Input or advice based on sound reasoning provided by 'experts' is all well and good, but I'd rather see us promote earning knowledge rather than giving knowledge.

Just MHO...

:)

It's a noble goal, sure, but at the end of the day, a lot of people just want an answer - they don't want to have to learn. That's why services like the Genius Bar exist. We can't all be Mac savants.

I deal with this a lot with a few of my coworkers - we're all pretty smart people as a whole, but some of them just have no intellectual curiosity when it comes to technology, so I'm the "tech guy" for the group.

Just this morning, I introduced my boss to SeatGuru and encouraged her to move from a middle seat in the 2-3-2 biz section to an upstairs seat on the 744 for her ORD-PVG trip this weekend.

My take is that we continue to provide service to the people who want to learn the ins and outs of various miles/points earning programs, but this would be a good opportunity to bring FT to the world, so to speak.

I think that there might be some exciting middle ground between tcook's 'earning the knowledge' and Randy's 'Genuis Bar'.

Maybe the person plugs in a few GATEWAY profile questions to at least narrow down what FFP preferences should be offered them:
* home airport
* what top 3 airports you fly to
* how often do you fly there
* who pays: you or company
* any airline major likes or dislikes
* nonstop vs. connection likes or dislikes
* other non-flying mileage earning opportunity (credit cards)

* what's most important on a paid ticket
- fare cost
- access to upgrades
- maximizing mileage earning
- access to preferred seating, lounges, free excess luggage

* what are your mileage redemption preferences:
- top 3 targeted destinations
- mileage upgrade from Coach fare or mileage award ticket/COS
- how many persons needing award travel with you

Very rough, just a start, but its much easier to commit manpower to answwering questions from a more DETAILED Member profile/set of goals, preferences.

I like both tcook052 and beaubo's responses. ^

Add in what do you most want to get out of your FFP(s)? Awards, upgrades, status benefits.

more 'gateway' questions:

does your family fly often on paid tickets?
(consider Japan/Korean FFPs that allow miles pooling)

are one-way awards important to you?
(consider BD, QF, AF/KL)

are you a low mileage earner (say under 50k per yr incl flights, cc spend
(consider programs with cash/miles component like BA, BD, NW or frequent mileage promo discounts like AF/KL)

I like some of the ideas coming out of this thread ^

how many status miles do you expect to earn per year?
(help determine which level of status likely to achieve; offer best programs for that level)

With enough questions, we could have an algorithm deliver an automated response, then let the experts fill in any missing details. @:-)

I'm sure with enough algorithms we could use solar power to toast bread, though I'm not so sure doing something because we can is a good enough reason. Automated responses sounds too much like the airlines current approach to their customers; cold, robotic, uncaring and unapologetic.

Just to shoot some others ideas around on the topic, would it possibly become harder to encourage and build 'experts' from within the ranks of FT if there was a shortcut to gaining FFP/FFM knowledge? Would such an exchange place a greater burden on those experts who are already quite involved in other areas of FT like moderating? How would you say who is an expert and who isn't?

Rather than just ponder downsides I can offer up a few positive ideas for a possible structure; what about instead of naming FTers as 'experts' and noted as such in the handle like we do with FT Evangelists at present, what about having a core group have generic 'Fare Expert' FT handles so that the work load could be spread more evenly amongst 10-20 members while creating a more opaque and anonymous knowledge pool from which to dispense advice. In turn, those first set of 'experts' could then hand off the reins to others down the road, paying it forward much as we do now within FT with volunteer moderators, for example. I would still like to see a quick reference guide or sticky with the various redirects to individual FFP boards or MR forums listed on such a forum so that any member new or now so new could find answers themselves should they want to pursue a higher, pardon the pun, frequent flyer education.

To think even further outside of the box, is this perhaps a chance to amalgamate the much discussed 'FT Ambassador' concept with this potential 'genius bar' forum? For example, could we give some FTers anonymous handles to not only answer questions in the 'genius bar' area or forum but also for use all over FT as goodwill ambassadors? One last angle and possible tie in with past ideas would be instead of labelling this the 'newbie' forum couldn't we call it another name but encourage new arrivals to make good use of the 'genius bar' as a starting point? I see the concept if done correctly as having the potential to address many of the aspects that've been debated within these pages in the recent past.

I know the nuts & bolts may not work for many reasons not the least of which would be permitting some members to post under anonymous handles besides their own existing ones. I just thought that way it strips away any preconceived notions about who the 'experts' could or would be from newbies and veterans alike, replacing it with a more generic facade from which to offer input which the poster posing questions is then free to use or not.

And a last thought about the name as 'genius bar' sounds overly pretentious but I guess it works for Apple. 'Plane Answers' or 'Max Travel Lounge' are a couple that spring to mind as more descriptive for this application, though I will admit to be woefully analytical at times and therefore unable to come up with catchy buzz names like Pistachio, which was the new moniker given to a Canadian eco-gift store concept launched recently. ;)

Hi tcook-

Maybe the person's 'gateway' algorithym profile could be auto-forwarded to a clutch of volunteers who can provide varying degrees of personalized followup to the profile survey.

I think the purpose of some kind of standardized survey questions, is simply to insure that FT can be efficient in winnowing down the universe of FFPs for the user to consider....then the individualized contact/dialogue with a volunteer(s) could then take place on a more focused and efficient manner.

I think most folks have little interest in becoming stand-alone experts in FFPs.
Hopefully, some form of this system will engage the user to want to have repeat contact with FT because it was such a positive first impression.

I disagree. To me, the whole point of the 'genius bar' is human contact, not automated pre-programmed responses followed up by the option of further input from human experts.

I have lots of folks here in CLE that ask me to consult them about FFP methodology. And I always ask them to provide a pretty wide swath of info about their travel patterns, preferences and goals BEFORE engaging in a more in-depth conversation.

FWIW, at the Apple Store here in CLE, you actually have to identify WHAT your inquiry is so that you can be queued into the APPROPRIATE 'Genuis Bar' line. So, the concept of some kind of user profiling before making human contact should not be particularly offputting to a new user.....especially if there is an intro paragraph that specifically advises that there will be followup contact by a FT Volunteer/AmbASSerator/whatever within a designated period of time (ie- w/in 72 hrs?)

It's all starting to sound a bit like bidding for travel though, and I actually don't like that system.

I think the open format could serve up more than pat answers to which FFP fits the individual and could serve as a catch all venue for comparing not only programs but cabins, lounges, partnerships & alliances, redemptions, etc. FFP/FFM are only, to me, one part of the travel puzzle.

I think the challenge is that are indeed so MANY variables that influence the choice of best FFP for a given user.

Plus, there is often times a disconnect between user goals and reality (ie- user wants to go to Tahiti in First Class...then we find out that they generate 25K a year in total miles!!!!). No one's time and effort is well-served unless there is enough user info to provide them sage advice.

I think the profile interface could be quite easy to use and take less than 1 minute to fill out, with some very easy-to-answer gateway profile questions.

Remember, RP has mentioned utilizing volunteers for this project, hence the concern about allocation of time! Even if RP/IB decided to use a paid person as key contact, that person would benefit from having a more useful profile as a PRELUDE to engage the user.

I think that once you get a sense of a user profile, all those other issues (cabins, lounges, alliances, etc.) will invariably fall into place as part of a FFP suggestion from the FT contact.

Someone whose profile is earning a total of 25K a year BY NECESSITY, won't really be a candidate about lounges, upgrades because they won't qualify on status. Nor will they likely be so concerned about cabins/aircraft because they'll likely be fliying Economy.

Conversely,someone who has mega-credit and spend and 100K BIS miles can be offered a FAR BROADER array of advice.

I think that the user profile will go along way in at least helping user and advisor PRIORITZE which elements to focus on. Other related issues could be presented on a 'tease' basis if the user wants to delve more deeply after getting their PRIMARY issue answered.

So, the process would not have be be we answered you, now GET OUTTA HERE!! But, rather, we answered you, and we have other related options to present if you are interested.

But frankly, I think at this juncture, tcook's obersvation about enaging the usee into the FT millieu makes a lot of sense. In effect, we've taught you SOME, now go to the specific FFP forum to learn MORE on your own and get integrated into the FT community.

If this Genuis Bar becomes TOO thorough, we could end up with a lot of hit and run folks!!


The Genuis Bar should serve DUAL purposes- providing a service for the user AND giving the user a terrific platform/introduction to becoming a more regular/contributing member (more views/clicks for IB!!!) of FT.

Agreed. There may be less of a fear of posting in such an open and accessible format forum than one more narrowly dedicated to one particular program. Yes, lots of possibilities....:)

Consider this possibility, please.

After the proposed form is filled out and evaluated by a few of 'the pros' or members-at-large, suggest something like: "based upon your travel habits and expectations, you may find [AA, CO, DL etc] a good choice. Please visit the forum [link to it] and find out more."

This creates at least two opportunities. First, it provides some amount of instant information. Second, it introduces the person to effective use of the fora.

Voila! Give a man a fish AND go on a fishing expedition!


---- oops, Beaubo pretty much said all this a few posts back

I completely agree, as I have been thinking about this idea myself.

Overall, I believe that if the comparison threads were consolidated in one forum, they would be easier to find.

Sub-forums for comparison forums could also be a possibility, although that may be considered overkill.

I like the idea of a comparison engine and I imagine a system exists for other sites run by the owner of this IBB.

I don't know if that is the feature which enables this discussion but I'm all for helping the Host expand this site with a few select features.

It's not like we have any equity here except our posts and relationships. We can try some new things which might enhance the experience for new users.

If technology exists for this forum, then I'm happy to be a guinea pig.
I'm getting used to that feeling. ;)

I'm glad the longer-term-than-me members have been commenting on this.

It's exactly why *some* people find this board. "What's the best program for me?" I'm in a slightly different situation of searching out my next program, but a thread or forum to help me choose based on what I already know about flying would be of major assistance this year.

So if a way can be worked out which allows our professional FFP collectors to contribute without feeling as though they are being taken advantage of and still allow those of us in search mode to discover the best program for us, then this is a grand idea and I'm all for it.

It sounds to me like a "feeding with a spoon" forum.

While I would support such a helpful base (everyone changes his preference from time to time) there is one thing to consider:

It will need alot of input and competent answers. No assumptions or the like. Because of this, a basic form like Beaubo generated it would be a good start.

I say it because thats what I do for a living in consulting. So often I talk to travel managers or CEO's who complain they based their decision for a travel strategy on aspects that were in the end not very important for the target they set in the beginning.

I agree, this is yielded for the private person who is maybe self emplyed. So the key factor is really: What are your most important targets ?

Status - Benefits and Irrop support (especially for domestic travel)
Miles - Bonus and earning rates (mostly for intl travel)
Awards - We all want it but in the end we have to fly for the miles and face possible inconveniences on these trips: Are 30K more miles worth it to stick with a programm that offers you less priority benefits?

I present a real-life scenario!

Example: Someone who isn't research impaired, but rather simply hasn't a clue at this point about which airlines or programs are a good choice (that'd be me).

In this example, the flyer typically hops around the lower 48 on an LCC (hi nsx!) with the occasional flight on a legacy or two. Under normal circumstances there wouldn't be much to investigate, but now the pax needs to fly around Europe briefly in Italy and France as well as some serious state-hopping coming up - and worse, there will be little to no lead-time for those bookings. All last minute flights.

Should this pax become a devoted legacy flyer? Are the miles earned from Europe going to translate to anything of significance to hedge against sticking with the LCC and its perks? What happens when you mix openskies and LCCs? (seriously, that's my current most viable option) Are there important questions the pax is neglecting to ask?

And that's just the dilemma for today! I think a general "Howszit? whatszit?" forum would be nice. A place to go when you don't know where to go and have big complicated questions that cover multiple airlines, cities, and programs.

We can call it "Howzsit? Whatszit?" - "From here to there via anywhere related questions."

I think the general idea is awesome -
 

But i am still grappling with the issue of what questions to ask, and what information the user will need to know before filling out a profile, vs. how many questions are too many.

I give an example -

My former boss traveled ALL the time for work and leisure - about 60/40 domestic/foreign, and about 70/30 solo /family. He is a relatively average non-FT traveler in that he knew to have a mileage earning cc, offered to pay for meals to earn miles , concentrated his hotel travels to one chain whenever possible. BUT until I took over his travel arrangements HE HAD NO IDEA that status miles were different from cc miles. If he had filled out a questionnaire, he would have said he traveled over 100,000 status miles a year in one program which was NOT true.

So as the devil is in the details, I think it would take a subcommittee to hash out what to ask and how much human involvement. I like beaubo's idea of once you get some basics, you're steered to a particular forum.

Got to say, I think FT's great resource is the interaction with people who know, so I'm not sure that the way forward would be to automate the process?

I would only suggest that any solutions shouldn't be totally US focused.. choices are still relevant to other markets.. even though the number of options may be lower, the choice of FFP or Alliance is still relevant. For example, just because I live in Spain, doesn't mean I have to fly or enroll with IB, JK or UX..

apologies.. i sat down at the computer and wrote that previous post without realising that Sean had signed into FT. my mistake.