Jenbel

That's an interesting idea. I might also be tempted to cull out 'low fares' from the forum description as well. It is about low fares, but not as the normal member of the public would understand it (what's the cheapest fare to xxx???)

Tclin

I support this idea. Give posters options where they post - restricted forum or non-restricted one.

Added: Most of people here who supports non-restricted access to MR forum are concerned about losing (possible) great finds by newcomers. Right, but I assume it based on posters' Counts/Join Date. How exactly know it was discovered by real newcomers? I even think old timers maybe don't want to
post mistake fares under the established user name. If so, that's understandable. This is still my assumption, but more likely case than dug out deals by total newbies.

Jaimito Cartero

The UA LAX-AKL deal was outted by someone with not too many posts. I can think of a few other as well. And while the deals may not be discovered by the person who posts it, it's often the newbies who (unknowingly) out the interesting fares.

SAT Lawyer

I think I've posted a possible solution to the problem of newcomers calling the airlines and blowing a deal or lurkers, who otherwise don't contribute to FlyerTalk, vigilantly monitoring Mileage Run to put a quick halt to any colossal error, while at the same time making allowance for newcomers like rosj, who announce their arrival with a blockbuster, but I'm not sure if the solution is technically feasible.

I suggest that we impose a minimum tenure and post count and log-in requirement for FlyerTalkers to view existing threads and post in the Mileage Run forum, but make an exception for the authors of new threads. Presumably, newcomers who start up new threads to disclose their discovery of a great deal will have a vested interest in maximizing the shelf life of the deal. So allow anyone to start a new post, and anyone who starts a new post to post further in his or her own thread irrespective of tenure or post count, but otherwise tighten up the viewership in the Mileage Run forum.

Is this technically feasible?

SAT Lawyer

I concur with Tclin that this idea is a good one and would provide a significant improvement over the status quo. Perhaps it would increase the incentive to disclose tantalizing, non-mistake fares because those who view the restricted forum would presumably know the ropes. One of the problems that has become evident on FlyerTalk of late is that a lot of good deals are going underground. There needs to be a good middle ground between full disclosure in an openly-viewable forum and having only a handful of people and their close knit group of buddies being in the loop.

wharvey

I really do not believe we should punish all our "newer" members because of the actions of a few new members. As I review the Mileage Run forums, many "senior" members have also called airlines and knew what they were doing... where a newbie may have done it by accident.

I always hate this "throw the baby out with the bath water" mentality around here. We cannot stop a single member from calling an airline no matter what we implement.... so why try?

Let's work to create a community where people are not quickly looking to just take care of him/herself. THAT is the solution.

I hope the Talkboard does not approve this suggestion.

beaubo

The workaround of this well-meaning idea is easy. ANY member can post a 'new' fare, and then it would be up to Mods to figure out 'quality control'- if it was a bookable fare or a fare that included taxes/surcharges or a fare that had been posted before or a variation of an existing fare. Waaay too much political football as far as members gaming this system to gain entry and then subsequently putting the burden on the Mods to determine whose 'new' fare is MR worthy or not.


To repeat ad nauseum, ANY system that is built on restricting membership, preserving fares or counting on community standards/consensus is ultimately unenforceable. The mindset of checking out MR is to ALREADY have your calendar, your credit card...and hopefully a 'hall pass' on hand, so you can book a desired MR fare in REALTIME. Checking MR a few times a day is also a strategy for success, IRRESPECTIVE of those calling the airlines or airlines plugging the holes.

tcook052

There is a difference between low post count members and newbies though it seems the two are being confused again.

SAT Lawyer

I'm not following your argument.

I'm not asking if it is technically feasible to ask the moderators to assume the onerous task of individually policing Mileage Run threads; I'm asking if it's technically feasible for our bulletin board system to set a minimum post count and tenure requirement to view the Mileage Run forum (like Coupon Connection and OMNI) but allow an exemption for threads started by posters who don't otherwise meet the standard.

If it's not, then my suggestion is irrelevant and we needn't worry about whether it's meritorious or not.

In the alternative, we should seriously consider Jamito Cartero's suggestion of a bifurcated Mileage Run forum, one which is viewable by all and one which is restricted. I agree with you that true mistake fares are likely to be short-lived no matter what. But there are a number of other fares -- such as many CMB and Asia-originating good deal business class fares -- whose longevity might be extended and whose disclosure might be furthered if they had a home that was less likely to be trafficked and viewed by lurkers and neophytes.

scoow

I don't know that IB wants to discourage traffic to any forums. Despite the blame being passed around in this thread, it's not always the newbies who call, so a "post / longevity" restriction isn't going to solve the problem. Even many "insiders" have sufficient post counts to insure that company lurkers would find out about mistake fares. However, I would support a few changes (as suggested by others) to not encourage new eyes:

• Change the forum listing order: The basic miles/points airline/hotel forums should come before other ways to work the system (MR & SPAM)
• Remove "deals" from the MR Forum name & description: "Mileage Runs": "The place to post airfares conducive to Mileage Running including possible pricing errors and unusual fares." is equally accurate w/o being as likely to catch the eye of someone searching for deal, low fare, fare sales, good deal. All of which are in the current forum description. With the current description, anyone (not knowing what a MR is) looking for discounts, cheap fares, etc will click on this forum.

beaubo

It is precisely that 'exemption' you propose, that is the basis of my post....WHO will determine WHAT exemptions for new posters are appropriate.

In effect, ANY poster can theoretically 'CLAIM' the exemption for access to MR by posting a 'new fare'...with no objective criteria to determine whether the new fare is indeed new, valid, bookable, duplicate, variation of theme, etc.

I'm just taking the cynical approach that the system you suggest can easily be 'gamed'....which I would expect from the FTer procvility!!!

SAT Lawyer

The exemption I suggest is not that one thread-starting post in Mileage Run would allow that poster unlimited access to the forum regardless of whether the minimum tenure and post count requirements were satisfied, but rather that anyone could start a thread and post again in that single thread. The idea is to balance a desire to keep the viewership of some threads restricted, but to avoid stifling a newcomer who has unearthed a great find.

Stumble across a great fare that you want to share, but don't have the minimum qualifications just like rosj when he brought us the YYZ-LCA business class deal? No problem. Post away. And feel free to keep posting in the thread you started to help your fellow FlyerTalkers explore the find. There's virtually no risk that the original poster, newcomer or not, is going to do anything to jeopardize the vitality of his or her find.

Stumble across a mediocre fare that may not even be bookable? Hopefully you won't post it. But if you do, it's not going to get you anything other than one more post under your belt.

This is an objective criteria, not a subjective one. No moderator intervention is required. The only question is whether it can be implemented from a technical perspective.

Do you understand what I'm proposing?

beaubo

SATLawyer-

Thanks for the clarification.

GUWonder

The other question is whether or not the new arrangement would actually contribute more than it hinders with regard to the concern at hand. In this regard, the questions go beyond just that of a technical matter.

Take the situation of some "newbie" or "below X number of posts" FTer trying to figure out where to post a new deal. They may just give up posting a new thread or -- perhaps worse yet -- post it in an even less desirable place (e.g., the airline forum itself) after opening the Mileage Run forum and seeing for themselves basically nothing there.

Perhaps this concern could be somewhat addressed by keeping "fare gone" threads in the Mileage Run forum and/or allow just "fare gone" threads to be visible (if technically feasible) to "newbie" and/or "below X number of posts" FTers.

wharvey

I would ask members who are in favor of limiting access for newer members to think back to when you were a new member: How welcome would you feel to a community that prohibited you from participating in a core portion of its community? Would you have stayed around to wait until you got the key to a core travel forum?

I am against our limiting this forum... it is one of the ways many of our members find out about flyertalk.com. Something get posted there, gets national news, and brings members here.... yes, some do not behave the way we want... but neither do some seasoned members.

I think we should be more welcoming.... not less.