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Comments Welcome: Voting Underway - Create Finnair Plus Forum

Comments Welcome: Voting Underway - Create Finnair Plus Forum

 

Old Jul 4, 07, 5:14 pm
  #1  
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Comments Welcome: Voting Underway - Create Finnair Plus Forum

Moved by Dovster and seconded by Cholula to:

create a forum for Finnair and the discussion of its frequent flyer program.

This poll will close on Jul 16, 07 at 9:41 pm
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Old Jul 4, 07, 7:02 pm
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http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=504

Let me summarize some of the points made in the original discussion thread, and add some new ones:

1) Finnair is an important player in the Asian market, and becoming even more important. This is partly due to the fact that Finland lies on the shortest route between most of Europe and most of Southeast Asia. It's also partly due to smooth connections and OW membership.

2) There is a substantial number of posts related to Finnair, its program or HEL (the airport), disseminated over various forums, including Other European Programs, British Airways, OneWorld and Scandinavian. This shows that demand for such a forum exists, and there's no unified or natural forum to discuss AY-related topics at the moment.

3) A large number (over 25) of FTers declared that they are members of AY's program or fly AY often, and would be regular contributors to a Finnair forum.

4) Even though Finland is a small country (in terms of population), so are for example New Zealand, Singapore and Israel, and all their national carriers have successful forums. All these countries have in common that they are geographically quite isolated and therefore air travel is often the only or most convenient way to get there (or out of there).

5) Most Finns speak good English and use the internet regularly, so there is potential for growth from new members once the forum is established.

Last edited by iwillflytheworld; Jul 5, 07 at 3:28 am Reason: Corrected link to discussion thread
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Old Jul 4, 07, 7:20 pm
  #3  
 
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iwillflytheworld summed it up, i strongly urge the creation of a forum for Finnair. speaking in a practical sense, it's not difficult to do and i don't think that it would be difficult to find a moderator for such a forum.
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Old Jul 5, 07, 5:17 am
  #4  
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Thanks to iwillflytheworld for his summation as to why he thinks a Finnair forum would be a good idea

I've got to admit, I'm swithering on this one. Unlike Dovster, I'm rather less worried about how many people say they will post in such a forum, than in how many people on the boards already are posting about the airline. As such, I've found it much more informative to go into Other European Airlines forum to see how much current activity there is about this airline, than reading posts by people saying that they will post in such a forum. If they aren't already posting about the airline (and in fairness, some of you clearly are!) why should I expect that to change just because a new forum has been created? AY is not a homeless forum - it has a home currently.

I suppose that this is a gentle (but not so subtle ) reminder that there are more people to convince on TB than Dovster - he's set out his criteria by which he would support the forum creation, and you've met that. But we don't all share the same ideas about what makes a successful forum. Personally, for me, I like to see a lot of existing activity, and enough threads to convince me that the airline has really outgrown the 'Other' forum which is its current home. So hence, I'm swithering on this one.
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Old Jul 5, 07, 7:25 am
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Originally Posted by Jenbel View Post
I've found it much more informative to go into Other European Airlines forum to see how much current activity there is about this airline, than reading posts by people saying that they will post in such a forum. If they aren't already posting about the airline (and in fairness, some of you clearly are!) why should I expect that to change just because a new forum has been created? AY is not a homeless forum - it has a home currently.
At least for me the Other European Airlines forum is a place that doesn't feel like a forum where you can talk freely about Finnair. There are always some other airlines blocking the threads that has been written. The people who come there are maybe not looking news about Finnair but some other airline. I think this is what other people here feel too. For them it's not homey to post to a some strange OEA forum (now they're writing to a eg. SAS EB) - it would be much more convenient to post where people really know and are interested of the airline you're writing.

If Finnair had an own forum we could get more deep in talks eg. getting a lurker from the airline - press the airline to make changes we want!

Even now FTers in the OEA forum are surprised how many threads there has been just for Finnair. IMO simply this is a good proof that FTalk should give Finnair Plus a forum of its own!
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Old Jul 5, 07, 8:30 am
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Originally Posted by Jenbel View Post

I've got to admit, I'm swithering on this one. Unlike Dovster, I'm rather less worried about how many people say they will post in such a forum, than in how many people on the boards already are posting about the airline. As such, I've found it much more informative to go into Other European Airlines forum to see how much current activity there is about this airline, than reading posts by people saying that they will post in such a forum. If they aren't already posting about the airline (and in fairness, some of you clearly are!) why should I expect that to change just because a new forum has been created? AY is not a homeless forum - it has a home currently.
Thanks for sharing your views on this topic Jenbel. The point is that currently there's a lot of dispersion of information about Finnair. See my point 2) above. As a matter of fact, Other European Frequent Flyer Programs is not the home for Finnair discussion currently (though lately most AY-related threads were initiated there. But definitely not all). Moreover, Finnair seems to be outgrowing the bounds of the Other European forum. In recent weeks Finnair is clearly the most discussed airline in this forum.

You could argue that any FF program already has a home in some of the other forums; from that POV no new forums would ever be created. What are therefore your criteria for creation of new forums since, as you expressed, strong evidence of many people posting is not enough?
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Old Jul 5, 07, 9:59 am
  #7  
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And you are right - any airline could be contained in an 'other' forum - but for example, if you move UA back to 'other US', then 'other US' would become the defacto UA, because every other airline would be swamped by the sheer quantity of UA discussion. Now, that's an extreme example since UA is a huge airline, with a huge community on the board. But that kind of swamping effect on a minor scale can be a sign that an airline has outgrown the 'other' forum.

I also look for signs of an on-going dialogue already on FT about the airline, where we get good informative threads, with a relatively large amount of discussion going on about it. It is reassuring to look on OEP and see AY threads getting 20-30 responses, and not just a handful - as it means that there is discussion already occurring.

I'm aware that thread dispersion is an issue - I see it on my home BA forum - but in honesty, I'm not sure how much of that discussion would get moved over into a new AY forum if it was created, as some of it is BAEC related (e.g. AY slow to post points), and some not.

Hope that answers the question!
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Old Jul 5, 07, 10:19 am
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As Jenbel is well aware, you get instantly a nice feeling when opening the BA forum. It's a mix of important information, valued opinions and great entertainment like many of the threads where Ms Pucci Galore is involved. You just can't get the same feeling in the generic Other European Airlines forum. The rather few threads are difficult to follow. I'm sorry to say but it is quite dull compared with many devoted forums. The current mess of misplaced posts would continue.I am sure I won't post on a daily basis, but a new forum would make me a more frequent poster. As you can see even the possibility of a new Finnair forum has already increased the amount of Finnair related posts significantly during the last few weeks. Please, help us make Flyertalk a more interesting place for the increasing number of Finnair customers. Just close it if it does not meet your expectations. Changes are easy to make (e.g. Flying Dutchman and Frequence Plus forums were first merged and later reappeared again).

Last edited by nordic; Jul 5, 07 at 3:38 pm
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Old Jul 5, 07, 10:20 am
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Double posting --sorry
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Old Jul 5, 07, 12:44 pm
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One key point that has been touched upon in the discussion but not directly adressed is the existence of a proper community.

As long as Finnair does not have its own dedicated forum, there really cannot be a strong Finnair community here -- being relegated into the somewhat fragmented OEA forum does not foster this.

Would there be a viable Finnair community should there be a forum? I would think so, given the following numbers:

* Finnair carried 8.8 million pax in 2006 and is on track to exceed 9 M in 2007
* Finnair Plus has over 550.000 active members
* Finnair has 75 destinations and a fleet of over 70 airplanes
* Finnair is the third largest European operator between Europe and China
* Finnair is the second largest European operator in Bangkok
* Finnair is the national carrier of Finland

Finnair Plus deserves a forum of its own. We deserve a community of our own.

Give us a home!

Cheers,
T.
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Old Jul 5, 07, 1:05 pm
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Again speaking from a practical sense, if I want information about Finnair, I'm really not looking for threads about other airlines, so the OEA forum doesn't do the job. Having a Finnair forum would benefit FT because all the increasingly popular Finnair discussions would take place in one area of FT, and the information people are seeking would be readily available. I'll reiterate my main point though, this is not a difficult thing to do, adding one forum for an airline such as this would not take much time or effort, and the moderation requirements would be less than BA, UA, LH, etc; due in large part to the fact that AY really is smaller and the community posting there would be smaller..but no less important.
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Old Jul 5, 07, 3:15 pm
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I also strongly doubt the Other European Airlines forum can be 'home' for Finnair, or any other Airline/FFP for that matter, at its present state. Whether this is more an issue of a need for a separate AY forum or better management of the OEA, I don't know, but at the moment OAE is not homey and cozy at all, and I would go to lenghts to say it prevents generation of good discussion and establishment of community.

You may note, for example, that at OEA forum, there are currently one thread related to Austrian Airlines and one on LOT, both of which should go under Miles&More forum, if I've understood currently. While this is quite frequent misoposting, these two threads are actually moved there by moderators from other fora. So, if even mods don't know which airline belongs where, how would a sporadic visitor know?

Recently somebody was adviced to ask at other european airlines forum instead (I don't remeber where, I think it was AA forum), and the OP replied something along the lines 'Which other European airline forum should I ask?'

Whilst I understand the need to have a critical mass of interest to create a functional forum, I don't think these geographically divided 'other fora' make the trick. The case might be different if the OEA forum had dedicated moderators, who would organise master threads on airlines/FFPs to be discussed there, and update the info regularly. However, I doubt this is a realistic scenario.

Therefore, I think Finnair, and any other airline that has a genuinely interested potential community, should at least be given a try with an own forum. Isn't it the whole idea of FlyerTalk to generate meaningful frequent flying related discussion?
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Old Jul 5, 07, 3:26 pm
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Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
One key point that has been touched upon in the discussion but not directly adressed is the existence of a proper community.

As long as Finnair does not have its own dedicated forum, there really cannot be a strong Finnair community here -- being relegated into the somewhat fragmented OEA forum does not foster this..
Exactly, what I have tried to say. As a lurker, I think that there has been quite a lot of discussions about Finnair on airliners.net. Some of the posts (not always related to the main issue here: Finnair plus) could be lured here, if a Finnair forum would be established.

Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
* Finnair is the third largest European operator between Europe and China
* Finnair is the second largest European operator in Bangkok
Finnair and Lufthansa are the only European carriers with three destinations in Japan with their own metal. (AF CDG-NGO is operated by JL). Along with LH and AF the only European carrier between Europe and CAN (own metal). The only OW carrier between Korea and Europe (starting next summer).

Last edited by nordic; Jul 5, 07 at 3:39 pm
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Old Jul 6, 07, 12:20 am
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Originally Posted by Jenbel View Post
Now, that's an extreme example since UA is a huge airline, with a huge community on the board. But that kind of swamping effect on a minor scale can be a sign that an airline has outgrown the 'other' forum.
In fact UA is the single most active forum on FT AFAIK . No airline without its own forum already will come even remotely close to that level of activity. Likewise, no airline without its own forum will really swamp the corresponding other forum, though AY is the one who comes closest in the European case.

Originally Posted by Jenbel View Post
I'm aware that thread dispersion is an issue - I see it on my home BA forum - but in honesty, I'm not sure how much of that discussion would get moved over into a new AY forum if it was created, as some of it is BAEC related (e.g. AY slow to post points), and some not.
Since, as you say, some threads started on BAEC (as well as SK EB and OW, besides OEFFP) are AY-specific, they would be moved to a new dedicated AY forum, if not by the OP, then by a moderator . I'm also sure that some BA members would occasionally take a look at an AY forum and even contribute, since AY is a fellow European OW member and gateway to Asia. Posts related to both AY and BA would continue to be posted on BA as the bigger forum.
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Old Jul 8, 07, 1:19 pm
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Originally Posted by Jenbel View Post
I've got to admit, I'm swithering on this one. Unlike Dovster, I'm rather less worried about how many people say they will post in such a forum, than in how many people on the boards already are posting about the airline. As such, I've found it much more informative to go into Other European Airlines forum to see how much current activity there is about this airline, than reading posts by people saying that they will post in such a forum. If they aren't already posting about the airline (and in fairness, some of you clearly are!) why should I expect that to change just because a new forum has been created? AY is not a homeless forum - it has a home currently.
.

Personally I have to say that these arguments by jenbel are pretty weak, and could have been used to prevent the creation of any airlines forum previously. In my opinion, if Finnair doesn't get its own forum I really fail to see what "new" airline would and on what criteria? And if there currently is no criteria as jenbel implied, then could someone possibly decide on a new set of rules? Flyertalk is a great forum created because there was a need for it, so why not create a Finnair forum as there C L E A R L Y is a need for it.
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