Jenbel

The question has been asked in TB, that since LH and LX have the same FF programme now, should the current forums be merged? There is precedent - KLM/AF and HP/US have both been merged, one as a complete merger, the other eventually in a subforum set-up, where the different airlines, which operate as distinct entities, have their own subforums, with a shared parent forum for discussing the FFP. This does give us a couple of potential models along which to base any merger - or we could let the status quo continue. One thing we are aware of, following those two mergers, is that merging a board is not as simple as just joining them together, and that if the boards have very different cultures, it can be very problematic for the users.

Any thoughts?

flysurfer

Yes, merge them already!

We don't need subforums, though. Why? Well, we also don't have (nor did we ever need or miss) a OS or LO subforum. Or one for all those small M&M "integrated partner airlines". We even have a combined LH/OS seating thread. It'll be easy to integrate LX in such threads, especially since LH keeps integrating LX into their systems/network, hence sooner than later LH and LX will resemble each other more than LH and OS.

Also, the LX forum looks pretty empty these days, which means that most users have already migrated to the LH forum, anyway.

SmilingBoy

I would say (and I hope I don't hurt any Swiss feelings):

Yes, the STC forum should be merged into the M&M forum.

1) Currently, even questions on OS are dealt with in the M&M forum, although OS is less integrated with LH than LX. Why should LX have its own forum then and not OS?

2) Swiss Travel Club does not exist anymore. Anybody who hasn't been following FFP history will not even know what this forum refers to.

3) Threads on LX are interesting for M&M members as the rules on LX are similar to LH, and should be expected to become increasingly aligned. This would stop us from having to monitor two forums.

4) There are quite a lot less posts in the STC forum than in the M&M forum, so integrating the two should not lead to information overload in the M&M forum.

5) The culture and posters in both the M&M and the STC forum are very similar.

Therefore, my suggestion: Make the current STC forum a sub-forum of the M&M forum, but close it for new threads. This would allow the history of the STC to be preserved (and discussion on historical threads to be continued) while all new issues can be discussed in the M&M forum.

On top of that it should be made clear that all threads regarding OS, LO or the smaller M&M members should be located in the M&M forum as well.

SmilingBoy.

airoli

The main discussion about this issue seems to be in the LH forum: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=673683

farefinder

On January 1st 2003 Qualiflyer (now located in “Discontinued Programs/Partners” section) went out of business. SWISS TravelClub (STC), Privilege (brussels airlines) and Navigator (TAP, now Victoria) were born and Qualifyer member had the option to transfer their miles into one of these FFPs (as LOT joined *A, members residing in Poland had the additional option to transfer their miles into Miles & More). On this BB, STC got their own forum, discussions about Privilege and Navigator (now Victoria) are grouped into European FFP forum.

STC had a short live for only 3 ¼ years, as this FFP discontinued operations almost a year ago. 900K members transferred their miles into MAM and if you look at the grid, a “Discontinued Programs/Partners” section exists. I have no idea, why STC was not transferred into this section. However, Randy Petersen, the former owner of this board announced his planes rather than merely move former forums to the discontinued area, to let them continue as sub-forums in the program that it is being moved to. I don’t know, why these planes didn’t come into effect.

If you compare AF/KL with LH/LX, please bear in mind that Frequence Plus (AF) and Flying Dutchmen (KL) went out of business as Flying Blue was born while SWISS TravelClub discontinued operation, but Miles & More (MAM) stays alive. In other words, situation for MAM member didn’t change while former STC members had the option to transfer their miles into MAM.

Up to now discussions about AF/KL are structured in three forum: Flying Blue, Air France, KLM (IMO last two with misleading titles as discontinued forum still named). Discussions about LH/LX are structured in two forum: Lufthansa Miles & More (including discussions about Adria Airways, Air Dolomiti, Air One, Austrian, Croatia Airlines, LOT Polish Airlines) and SWISS TravelClub (misleading title). IMO the last forum should be only used for SWISS Topics not related to MAM.

Following the AF/KL path, LH/LX would be split up into three forum: Miles & More for mileage related topics and Lufthansa et al and SWISS for airlines related topics. I don’t support this approach: As there are already discussions on the current Lufthansa Miles & More board about mileage and airline related topics, I would not destroy a healthy scheme.

Thus one question remains: Where to discuss about SWISS International Airlines related topics? I would do this within the current Lufthansa Miles & More board which is medium sized and move the current SWISS TravelClub board to Discontinued Programs/Partners” section. If this is not a valuable solution, I would not change anything besides the forum title into SWISS International Airlines (but delete the outdated referrer www.travelclub.swiss.com)

farefinder

As there was and is only one dedicated forum for these topics, members should do this up to now. However, some members don’t follow TOS.

If you like to draw attention what’s personally important for you (= to acquire premium passenger to transfer at ZRH), than you start threads in the MAM forum.

MAM is also the FFP of Adria Airways, Air Dolomiti, Air One, Austrian, Croatia Airlines and LOT Polish Airlines. Discussions about airline related topics of these airlines running on MAM board smoothly for years. Although M+ board is much bigger in size, there is no forum for TED.

Talking about LH and LX, this was not a merger, it was an acquisition.

As Frequence Plus and Flying Dutchmen discontinued operations and Flying Blue was born, the new FFP of AF/KL was similar designed as Frequence Plus. IMO there was a culture shock for former Flying Dutchmen members as the new FFP of their [i]beloved airline[/I ] is not as generous as the former. For these members this was much more problematic than the different cultures of Frequence Plus and Flying Dutchmen forums.

totti

You only have options if there are several (or at least two) to choose from. Actually STC members had none or at least they had none if they didn't wanted to lose their miles.

As I still posted in the other thread I vote for a merger without any subforums. All issues related to LH, LX, OS and the other integrated M&M partners can be duscussed in one forum IMHO.

Cheers
totti

Jenbel

I wasn't talking about LH & LX - I was talking about the two mergers of boards on FT.

I'm sorry, I didn't think you were on FT when the KLM/AF boards were merged As someone who was active on one of the boards at the time, there definitely were issues because the boards themselves had very different cultures - which wasn't realised until the boards were merged, and it wasn't realised what a problem it could be until the boards were merged. Big learning curve for everyone involved in that particular process - and hence the later divorce into subforums for irreconcilable differences between the former members of the two boards

farefinder

The other option was to spend STC miles.

farefinder

I definitely have no idea about managements' approach. I assumed, as Flying Dutchment and Frequence Plus discontinued operations, these forums were moved into the discontinued forums section and a new Flying Blue forum was opened. I never thought FT made out of two boards one. Sorry, that I interfered.

Jenbel

No, we had two restructuring attempts because the first was not successful but that's a learning point for this discussion

totti

Not what I'd call an option: how to spend lets say 500k miles (there were a lot of STC members with even more miles in their accounts) within 6 month or even less?

Anyway this is OT here and that's why I stop. It was all discussed long ago in both, the M&M and STC forum.

Again, a merger would be a real profit for both the LX and M&M forum and for FT in general, IMHO.

Greetings
totti

SmilingBoy

Of course there are LX specific topics. But on LH, there is also a big distinction between longhaul and shorthaul (seating, service, routes, airport tipps etc.). Do we need a subforum for LH shorthaul? No. So I say, integrate all discussions into one board. Let's ask it the other way round: How many people reading the LX forum would not be interested in M&M issues? I would assume most LX forum poster monitor the M&M forum in any case. If this is true, there is no need to keep the two separate anymore.

SmilingBoy.

ozstamps

I am not a regular user of either (But did fly Swiss from JFK-Zürich last month!) however as a casual observer this does seem on first read like a logical solution.

As a TB member I'd be happy to support this path if others are happy with it.

I'd also be interested to read the thoughts of other time Swiss/LH users like Rudi etc, and certainly would use their thought as strong guidance.

airoli

Following up on Jenbel's culture issue, this is a point that's not to be underestimated IMHO. In fact, the discussion style on today's LX forum is quite different than what can be witnessed on LH.

On LX, there are less off-topic discussions and fewer topics that drift off to something completely different. Also, we lack the rapid and sequential posting of short insertions by the likes of flysurfer and weero. And so far, the LX board has never needed a moderator.

That being said, I have no problem with the culture and humor as displayed in the LH forum today. But it *is* different.