Football Fan

If there is a TalkBoard (opinions on how much sense it makes to have it are irrelevant for purposes of this thread, since Randy has decided he wants it to exist) and if there are elections, why would the TalkBoard forum be closed to all Flyertalkers?

I think people might appreciate the hard work the TalkBoard is doing (no irony intended here) more if they can see the TalkBoard discussions. It will also help people when they have to cast their vote again next time because they can see which members were active in coming up with ideas, picking up suggestions from this forum here and discussing them with the other TalkBoard members.

If the TalkBoard wants to discuss something in private, they can still e-mail each other, so I think that would not be a problem.

Just an idea, and not meant as criticism of anyone, but only as a constructive suggestion on how to make things more transparent and on how to increase appreciation for the work the TalkBoard is doing.

I am posting the idea in this forum because I want to suggest it to TalkBoard to have a vote on this and then make a recommendation to Randy to open the TalkBoard forum (read-only access) to the "Flyertalk public".

Hopefully, some or all TalkBoard members will respond here.

Thanks.

gleff

I think the TB should post more in Townhall, votes, motions introduced, etc.

I don't think it would actually be interesting, but I don't have any problem with the info being introduced.

But I'm not volunteering to own the posting.

Randy didn't seem to like the suggestion of keeping the TalkTeam forum open to all (read only) so I'm guessing this suggestion is a non-starter -- but the underlying goal of making things more transparent is a good one. It would put all the black helicopters to rest!

gleff

... maybe.

ozstamps

Look forward to reading the results of the TB vote on this idea.

Seriously, nice to see not all the TalkBoard have a Secret Service Act mentality, and do hope this prevails.

It really is how it should have been for the past 3 months IMHO since TB members were given free access and the green light to update and change Town Hall at will.

Basically zippo had been updated or posted or amended in that time.

Talkboard were elected, and like anyone who puts themselves forward to be elected - from local PTA or church committee thru to the US Senate folks like to be able see if they wish what you are doing to justify (or otherwise) their vote and support.



------------------
Try and make it down to SYD for "OZ FEST 2004" - May 21-23

~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from UA 747-400 exit row 15A near you SOON!

kokonutz

I've made this suggestion about moderators on several deleted threads in the Only Randy forum. Theoretically, I agree with open governance and agree that it ought to be applied to the TB as well. After all, what better way to judge leaders than by watching their debates. Flyertalk C-Span, baby!

For example, I note that the date of most recent postings is fairly current on the TB forum. Good for them! Hopefully they are saying something to the effect of: "You know that Oz is being a real pain in the butt again, but if we are honest with ourselves it is because he really does have a point..." That would be refreshing to be able to read!

Besides, the really juicy stuff could be kept to the private listserv!

However, The Leader disagrees on this point and so let it be written, so let it be done!

'Nuf said...

Football Fan

Thanks again, gleff, for answering in this thread, and for letting us know who is on TalkBoard right now.

Would the ladies and gentlemen mentioned in the post below mind dropping in and letting us know what they think about my suggestion?

Consider it an "official" request to the TalkBoard if that's what is required to receive a response.

Thanks.

Starwood Lurker

First, I would like to say that I am all for the registered members of Flyertalk being informed of the work of the TalkBoard. I also believe that we can do better at it than we have been once we can agree on what should be shared publicly.

Having said that, I think the current mandate and guidelines we are being held to are unreasonable. They evoke quite lofty ideals, but are unreasonable from a volunteer standpoint. Randy does not have the time to babysit TalkBoard anymore than he has time to babysit Flyertalk in general, and I think that an absence of his general guidance has been a disappointment to some in the past, which may have caused their departure early in its development. So, what we are left with are the lofty ideals, but with no real way of fulfilling them. I think what it is going to take to get back on track is for the TalkBoard as a collective unit to pull itself up by the boot-straps, review the lofty ideals that were put into motion, and modify them into something that we can all live with. As with many cathartic processes, this is going to be painful in a lot of aspects. It is going to take some nitty gritty discussions that probably should not be made public until a consensus of opinion has been reached. I can't think of anything more distracting to the process of getting back on track than having everyone able to read and ultimately make fun of the efforts involved. I mean, certainly the outside influences will not be able to disrupt the threads, but the howling at the moon outside is going to be onerous. I would rather see us adopt a more aggressive approach to communicating with the message board in general than open it up to a read-only format, so I guess in as few words as possible, I would not be in favor of it.

Sincerely,

William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

[email protected]


[This message has been edited by Starwood Lurker (edited Feb 24, 2004).]

Football Fan

Thanks, Starwood Lurker. I understand your reasoning and respect it. Just wanted to say thank you, because I believe after gleff, you are actually the TalkBoard member that communicates the most with the members (about TalkBoard issues).

Did I understand it correctly, though, that you could imagine that after the current TalkBoard members have gone through some internal discussions and sorted things out, opening the TalkBoard forum as a read-only forum to the public would be something that could be worth looking at again from your point of view in the future?

Or, as a replacement, perhaps TalkBoard could duplicate some "internal" threads they decide to make public in this forum here?

gleff

Alternatively, perhaps we might consider publishing minutes?

Football Fan

The problem with that seems to be that that would require someone writing up those minutes, which is additional work for one person. Since (what I would assume) most of the discussion takes place online in a format that is familiar to all members (the forum), why not just publish the whole discussion, which would lead back to either my original suggestion of making the whole forum readable or to an alternative suggestion of duplicating whole threads to make them readable (which should require only a couple of clicks instead of someone having to sit down and write minutes).

Starwood Lurker

Thanks. I think the TalkBoard forum needs to be kept confidential precisely so discussions can always take place with as little disruption as possible. Truthfully, these discussions can be very frank and not very edifying in some instances, and not because we are talking about anyone in particular, but more because the people involved in the discussions become emotionally charged, if not attached, to their viewpoints and express their feelings and disappointments. That's just the way it happens sometimes (but not all the time) and not all of it is bad in that it allows us to blow off steam, but still get our opinions heard. In the end, either a compromise is worked out and we act, or the issue is tabled.

I am more in favor of what gleff suggests in the way of meeting minutes and have been working toward that end for about a week now. But, it is dreadfully slow work going through old postings and the discussion that followed as the threads are so disjointed. I have to balance my work at Starwood with my work as the Starwood Lurker and a TalkBoard member in such a fashion that it does not interfere with the quality of that work in any aspect. When I complete this opus, I intend to forward copies of it to all the TalkBoard members for their approval to be released to the general Flyertalk population - should they agree this is the format they want to adopt.

I want everyone to understand that I do not consider everyone that is not on the TalkBoard to be a distraction to our working process, but neither can I think anyone will deny that this element exists. We are really nothing exceptional, but we are willing to do whatever we can in the capacity we are given - provided that mandate is a reasonable expectation.

Sincerely,

William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

[email protected]

Starwood Lurker

I agree that in the beginning, it will be quite a chore to go back to the beginning, which was September 9th. But, once we get caught up - and really, it is a finite section of data - I think it will work better for us to update as we go and not be so much a burden.

One thing I did discover is that no one on the TalkBoard was able to make any additions to Town Hall until November. That is when we were given instructions on how to do it. So, we have been working behind the 8 ball on the communication effort and - I think - simply got overwhelmed and confused about what was supposed to be posted there.

By the way, thanks for allowing us to communicate in a less hostile and accusatory environment.

Sincerely,

William R. Sanders
Customer Service Coordinator
Starwood Preferred Services

[email protected]

[This message has been edited by Starwood Lurker (edited Feb 24, 2004).]

Football Fan

Thanks very much, it is very encouraging to hear that you are taking on the burden of doing that work. It is appreciated. I hope the other TalkBoard members will respond quickly so that we can get to see some of the results of your discussions.

Punki

Having been involved when the guidelines for TalkBoard were written (extremely well written I might add, primarily by svpii, who is among the very smartest folks I have ever had the privilege of knowing) and being very familiar with all of those guidelines, I can't see any reason on earth why they can't simply be followed. They are not lofty ideals, but simple procedural guidelines, designed to make TalkBoard run smoothly and objectively and to keep it fresh and accountable, (with proper and timely elections).

I also see absolutely no reason on earth that TalkBoard should not be a read only board. It really should be open to the public--good Lord, if rape trials and Congress can operate in the light of day, surely TalkBoard issues (never any more exciting than new smilies or new fora) can be managed in public. That would certainly eliminate some of the seriously useless, nasty, petty and often pointlessly negative discussions that played a major role in my decision to resign. (Why do I always think of herding cats when I think of my appointment to Talkboard?) If the TalkBoard members really feel that they have something to say that they don't feel would bear the light of day, they can say it in their Yahoo Group or send each other private e-mails.

To be perfectly honest, the Advisory Board (to which I also had the privilege of being appointed) was IMHO a whole lot less controversial and a whole lot more useful venue than TalkBoard has ever been.


[This message has been edited by Punki (edited Feb 25, 2004).]

gleff

Punki, we can't follow the guidelines to the letter and no TB ever has (as far as I can tell). Have there ever been quarterly conference calls? And annual meeting in person? Randy specifically said he didn't want elections right away -- that's a pretty good reason not to follow the edict for elections for President/VP after electing new members of the TB.

Separately, there is no longer a Yahoo group. At least that's what I've been told. Maybe everyone's just talking and using it behind my back?