I am very dissapointed with you all. I chose a long time ago to conduct the business of personal actions regarding members in private - and you've all known that for some time. I have never asked for any feedback from you because frankly that is a condition of use on this board. But NO, none of you respect this decision, you have to debate it since you didn't get your way. That dishonors the manner in which I've tried to run this board and I will not be pressured by any of you to make your personal lives on FlyerTalk the stuff of public fodder. If you want a Board like FlyerTalk in which the you feel it necessary to have fun debating why or why not someone was given a proper time out (or whatever term you think is appropriate) then please move on to the next place in line. In my mind, publishing the names and actions is not warranted since in doing so you will want to debate of the time out was correct, long enough and point out that someone else got away with it. Sorry, I will not be baited into that trap.

Now I ask, who among you is willing to return to the topic of travel and miles and points?

Sounds fine to me...your board after all.

But, I would say that this thread illustrates a contradiction to your said goals.


Dorian

Randy, I meant no disrespect. I'm over-inclined to express my opinion, and would, by my nature, debate lunch. I may be always more willing to offer you my opinion than are willing to hear it, but I am ultimately respectful of the fact that this is your house, and it is incumbant on me to respect your rules.

Okay - checking "express opinion about disclosing timeouts" off my list..

Randy suggests: I am.

The problem is that there is this thing called TalkBoard.

And there is this forum here with the title of "TalkBoard."

By creating TalkBoard, you have created a political bureaucracy within the board itself where none needed to be and which actually attracts debate, personal conflicts and opposition!

I agree with what you want and are trying to achieve. But you've actually set something in place that is counter to your goals, IMHO.

IMHO, the business of FlyerTalk should not be about the "business" of FlyerTalk. I shouldn't even have a place on the board to write what I am writting now (about FlyerTalk policy)!

It should be about travel and the people that populate the board.

But TalkBoard just begs to invite discussion not travel related!

If you want to have a clutch of advisors...people you turn to for advise or ideas, I think that's fine.

In private.

And I think the Suggestions Forum is just fine for members to give their ideas.

And if you want to put an idea up for feedback on FlyerTalk, I think that's fine too.

But to have a public TalkBoard with public elections and even advertise those facts...well...I think you should expect trouble in River City, my friend. On a regular basis. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Why? Because you are publicly letting everyone into the "business" of FlyerTalk. And worse, you are inviting politics and bureaucracy to come right onto the board itself, pull up a chair, put it's feet up, and "vote" on smilies and if Koko drinks too much.

I know you didn't ask, but those are my opinions on this subject.

[This message has been edited by PremEx (edited 03-13-2002).]

FWIW, I had a physical today and the doctor said I should drink more!

But I think he was talking about water....


Randy: I am more then happy to agree to disagree on the issues I raised, and acknowledge that 'house rules' apply http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by kokonutz (edited 03-13-2002).]

Randy Petersen: We've been discussing travel and miles and (occasionally) points over at Delta like crazy tonight.

And as my (I hope clearly sardonic) earlier post on this thread suggests, I agree with the idea that some of us became too boisterous. (This thread is not Tarom, after all.)

Please let me then also add the strong opinion that TRANSPARENCY is almost always preferable to obfuscation. I believe that you have made this a public forum, and I surely hope that that benefits you; but it will ultimately benefit you, and the rest of us, the most, if WE ALL have a clear idea of the limits you have established. I, personally, am mystified by some of these time-out decisions and learned very little as to what boundaries I should consider in posting.

While I have only occasionally felt provoked on these boards, my upbringing in the general public arena as a free citizen entitled to freedom of speech has made me also occasionally respond; but my desire to be a good citizen of these boards makes me want to know when that may overstep.

I think what I am asking is that something less opaque than the TOS define how we have limited our freedom of speech by participating on this privately-operated but publically-open board.

Maybe another job for the TalkBoard (well, they asked for it, running for office and all...)



------------------
"Service" should be a noun, not a verb.
Delta Flyers' Guide

What I think Randy is trying to say is that this is his board, and he will determine how violations are handled.

We already have the rules spelled out here, but I believe he thinks of them more as a minefield than a fence, so to speak. Any violations of the TOS may result in sanctions. While I personally would prefer to have much clearer lines, his point to me was that he is is one guy, doing this by himself, trying to get assistance from moderators as the process develops.

In any case, he has made it clear that we should stop the edge-play - stop trying to test / find limits like 13 year olds and just go back to takling about miles and points. It may not be exactly the way you or I would run a board, but I am at least personally convinced that he intends to be fair and enforce all of the rules equally.

I do not intend to respond to personal attacks any more, other than notifying Randy and/or his moderators. I assume that those that also received time-outs will also refrain from atacking, refrain from using duplicate and second identities, and simply e-mail any complaints/issues to Randy as he asked. But, that will depend on each person's respective honor.

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 03-19-2002).]

Wouldn't we all. The following posts have plenty of breakout, shadow games of words, snickering, references to individual members, non travel stuff :

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/004657.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000044.html

So what are the rules?

Ladies and Gentlemen, it seems one of our communities aboard today is feeling a little under the weather. If there is a doctor aboard this flight, please ring your flight attendant call button. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Gawd, I hate smiley faces.

I believe, yet cannot confirm, that Doc has taken a break of undetermined length from FT.

For me this is a huge turning point on FT, when the person with the most posts bails. Doc brought travel news to me daily, now I am lacking and do not have the time to find it myself.

If I ran FT I would persue Doc's return immediately. H*ll, I don't know why he was lumped in with a TOS violator for a timeout anyway?!

Dorian

I had a most enjoyable dinner with Doc last week, and he is doing quite fine, I want everyone to know.

I'll echo what Dorian said. Meanwhile the TOS violator continues to violate (with the contents of his profile all over FT - AKA spam?) the TOS and also the spirit of what Randy had emailed to me at the time of the timeout.

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 03-19-2002).]

Personally, and I realize that I am in the minority, I've found the past few weeks on FT to be very refreshing and enjoyable. No major turning point as far as I am concerned. To be able to walk out in my front yard (UA forum) and neighborhood (FT Miles) and not find it littered with newspapers (a newspaper for every article, link, etc., many of which were not at all related to travel) is actually quite nice. I find that, with a little initiative, I can find travel articles quite easily and efficiently. Perhaps our prolific local news delivery person has found other interests?

Since I had my say on this issue - it's really not up for debate and thus this thread is closed. Thanks for returning to the topic of travel and miles and points.