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Closing the External Miles and Points Resources Forum

Closing the External Miles and Points Resources Forum

 

Old Aug 13, 16, 6:32 pm
  #61  
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Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
(not to mention this website's owners).
Fortunately, the TalkBoard is not tasked with ensuring the forum provides value to this website's owners!
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Old Aug 14, 16, 9:27 am
  #62  
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Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
If a forum is popular then by definition it adds value to this website and its users (not to mention this website's owners).
There's no causal link between popularity and value. The OMNI/Games thread about counting to 100,000 is popular but it's not adding value. The Penalty Box type threads are popular but a compelling argument can be made that they don't add value. And most relevantly, in my opinion a forum where people insult bloggers and fight with other members does not add value. To me, value is the Flyertalk community and valuable travel resources. The EMPR forum fits into neither of those categories.
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Old Aug 14, 16, 9:38 am
  #63  
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The "it doesn't add value for me, so let's close it for all" isn't that great of an argument. Simply stop reading a forum/thread then.

Or is this about more than adding value?
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Old Aug 14, 16, 9:41 am
  #64  
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Originally Posted by RTW1 View Post
The "it doesn't add value for me, so let's close it for all" isn't that great of an argument. Simply stop reading a forum/thread then.

Or is this about more than adding value?
That's only part of my argument. My larger argument is that it reflects badly on Flyertalk as a whole. We have a forum where grown adults come to call another blogger gay. Is this something we want as part of this website? I certainly didn't think so. I was elected to represent the interests of this website and this is something I feel is better suited not on our site.

Lastly, I'm not sure what you're implying with your second line. I have no love for bloggers (in fact, Gary Leff blocked me on Facebook for some of my comments).
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Old Aug 14, 16, 10:42 am
  #65  
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
That's only part of my argument. My larger argument is that it reflects badly on Flyertalk as a whole. We have a forum where grown adults come to call another blogger gay. Is this something we want as part of this website? I certainly didn't think so. I was elected to represent the interests of this website and this is something I feel is better suited not on our site.

Lastly, I'm not sure what you're implying with your second line. I have no love for bloggers (in fact, Gary Leff blocked me on Facebook for some of my comments).
I feel you are misrepresenting the totality of what is posted in that forum.

The vast majority of posts are substantive analysis of external points and miles resource post content, style, logistics and reliability. Very helpful in judging what to read, what to believe, what events to attend, etc.

Do posts sometimes dwell on minutia such as missing apostrophes? Sure. Just like sometimes flyertalkers dwell on minutia such as how warm the warm nuts should be served on a domestic F transcon on AA.

We're nitpickers. That's just how flyertalkers roll!
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Old Aug 14, 16, 10:43 am
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
That's only part of my argument. My larger argument is that it reflects badly on Flyertalk as a whole. We have a forum where grown adults come to call another blogger gay. Is this something we want as part of this website? I certainly didn't think so. I was elected to represent the interests of this website and this is something I feel is better suited not on our site.

Lastly, I'm not sure what you're implying with your second line. I have no love for bloggers (in fact, Gary Leff blocked me on Facebook for some of my comments).
Calling someone 'gay', along with personal attacks in general are against FT's TOS. FT has a moderation system in place to deal with these things.

Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
You'd be surprised how little moderation I do there. I'm happy to report that AFAIR I have not banned anyone due to posts in EM&PR either, except maybe a few sockpuppets/duplicates. ...
CMK10, Can you help me understand why your issue is anything but one with the forum's moderation? I fail to see how civil discourse related to the points and miles blogs could reflect badly on FT. If the discourse isn't civil, how are topics germane to points and miles the problem? Isn't the issue one of FT member behavior?

Bottom line for me is that I'd like to see a forum maintained that allows critical analysis and discussion of the blogs. It is a useful counterpoint.
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Old Aug 14, 16, 11:23 am
  #67  
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
That's only part of my argument. My larger argument is that it reflects badly on Flyertalk as a whole. We have a forum where grown adults come to call another blogger gay. Is this something we want as part of this website? I certainly didn't think so. I was elected to represent the interests of this website and this is something I feel is better suited not on our site.

Lastly, I'm not sure what you're implying with your second line. I have no love for bloggers (in fact, Gary Leff blocked me on Facebook for some of my comments).
My last line is simply an indication I have no clue why this subject was started and not for something like OMNI. Feels very subjective to me.

And as I've stated before, why is talking about people being gay a bad thing? It's part of the blog (and FT). If it gets to be insulting, there's always moderation.
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Old Aug 14, 16, 12:31 pm
  #68  
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
There's no causal link between popularity and value. The OMNI/Games thread about counting to 100,000 is popular but it's not adding value. The Penalty Box type threads are popular but a compelling argument can be made that they don't add value. And most relevantly, in my opinion a forum where people insult bloggers and fight with other members does not add value. To me, value is the Flyertalk community and valuable travel resources. The EMPR forum fits into neither of those categories.
I'd disagree about the OMNI/Games threads and Lounge threads adding value. They build community in may cases. I've met people I wouldn't otherwise have met because of a Lounge thread. I've had someone send me a t-shirt, and I've sent someone various baked goods because of a Lounge thread.
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Old Aug 14, 16, 6:31 pm
  #69  
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I think the forum -- or at least the topic -- has a place on FT and should remain open.

Criticism and praise of those in the miles and points business has had a place on FT for as long as I've been posting on here. I don't see why the blogs in this business should be exempted from being discussed on FT.
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Old Aug 15, 16, 5:08 am
  #70  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Criticism and praise of those in the miles and points business has had a place on FT for as long as I've been posting on here. I don't see why the blogs in this business should be exempted from being discussed on FT.
IIRC, this is why the forum was created.
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Old Aug 15, 16, 9:10 am
  #71  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
I think the forum -- or at least the topic -- has a place on FT and should remain open.

Criticism and praise of those in the miles and points business has had a place on FT for as long as I've been posting on here. I don't see why the blogs in this business should be exempted from being discussed on FT.
And for many of us, it keeps the crap (um, "fine quality civil discourse" ) out of the other fora and we need not clutter our fragile little minds with unnecessary noise.

Keep the forum open!
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Old Aug 15, 16, 10:10 am
  #72  
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if threads moved to MS forum, rather than travelbuzz, maybe easy to ignore for those who dont want to read it

although travelbuzz has one additional moderator
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Old Aug 15, 16, 10:21 am
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri View Post
if threads moved to MS forum, rather than travelbuzz, maybe easy to ignore for those who dont want to read it
It's easy enough to ignore the forum where it is now for those who don't want to read it.
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Old Aug 15, 16, 10:38 am
  #74  
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Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
It's easy enough to ignore the forum where it is now for those who don't want to read it.
i would agree, others may disagree
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Old Aug 15, 16, 2:29 pm
  #75  
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Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
I feel you are misrepresenting the totality of what is posted in that forum.

The vast majority of posts are substantive analysis of external points and miles resource post content, style, logistics and reliability. Very helpful in judging what to read, what to believe, what events to attend, etc.

Do posts sometimes dwell on minutia such as missing apostrophes? Sure. Just like sometimes flyertalkers dwell on minutia such as how warm the warm nuts should be served on a domestic F transcon on AA.
I've spent a lot of time in that forum and I think there are very few posts that could be called an analysis. It's a sounding board for people who don't like bloggers, pure and simple.

Originally Posted by work2fly View Post
CMK10, Can you help me understand why your issue is anything but one with the forum's moderation? I fail to see how civil discourse related to the points and miles blogs could reflect badly on FT. If the discourse isn't civil, how are topics germane to points and miles the problem? Isn't the issue one of FT member behavior?

Bottom line for me is that I'd like to see a forum maintained that allows critical analysis and discussion of the blogs. It is a useful counterpoint.
I'm actually not allowed to criticize the moderation. However, I think the mere existence of the forum invites a discourse that is anathema to this website. It's not a moderation issue, it's opening a forum to carte blance criticism of bloggers for petty reasons.

Originally Posted by RTW1 View Post
My last line is simply an indication I have no clue why this subject was started and not for something like OMNI. Feels very subjective to me.

And as I've stated before, why is talking about people being gay a bad thing? It's part of the blog (and FT). If it gets to be insulting, there's always moderation.
Of course it's subjective. But as for your comparison to OMNI/PR, discussion of politics and religion is a serious subject, one deeply rooted in this country's culture. I don't venture much into "bad OMNI" but I'm not going to defend it either. If you think it's a problem, make a separate thread and we'll discuss it. Saying "well what about OMNI/PR?" when it's not germane to this point is a straw man argument.

As to your second line...wow. His blog isn't branded as a gay blog and there's almost no details about his sexuality in it. It's a bad thing when it's not relevant, especially when we're supposed to be engaging in this critical analysis the forum defenders keep talking about.

Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
It's easy enough to ignore the forum where it is now for those who don't want to read it.
I'm going to remind you of this post the next time you forcefully argue for a forum's closure.
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