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Closing the External Miles and Points Resources Forum

Closing the External Miles and Points Resources Forum

 

Old Aug 12, 16, 8:20 am
  #46  
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Originally Posted by 84fiero View Post
If there is a cesspool that reflects poorly on FT and has no value added, it's OMNI PR.
I agree, but that's not what this discussion is about.
Originally Posted by RTW1 View Post
This is all starting to sound like censorship to me. Moderate the post that are considered to be against the T&C's, but don't use arguments that it doesn't add value (based on some subjective personal scale) or that it might be insulting for members personally (these are not simple members, they run a business, and most are not even active here). It's a slippery slope if personal feelings about the value of content would determine the fate of a forum.
Your theoretical "freedom of speech" is a red herring. And the fate of all fora here is decided by feelings of the elected leaders as to the value the content therein presents. There are plenty of discussions which are not T&C violations which don't add value to the community and have no purpose being hosted or maintained here.

But I'll go back to the point I made above: What is the value add that the conversations there bring to FT and the broader frequent flyer community?
  • If one wants to know about good CC offers and what the best value is there is a whole forum (which is very active and tremendously useful) dedicated to such. Do we need a second forum pointing out the bad offers advertised by others?
  • The back and forth over how to spell a blog name is a ridiculously petty, veiled way to attack the author of that blog. And, again, to what end?
  • Is Las Vegas a great place to vacation with kids? Again, there's a whole forum dedicated to such discussions (two, really) and the conversation would be well managed in either of those.
  • I believe there is value in the conversations about meetups and events related to miles & points but those survived pretty well in CBuzz until bickering over who was sponsoring them and who might be profiting from them came into play. Easily resolved to keep some of the more valuable EM&PR content alive on FT.
  • A discussion about why a program made changes to its rules is easily handled in that program's forum rather than in EM&PR.

I'm not surprised to hear that the moderation was relatively light; as a frequent visitor to the train wreck I saw that first hand. I believe that the case simply because the few regulars have been around FT long enough that they know how to write posts within the letter of the rules, not because the discussion follows the spirit of the T&C or the sense of community FT should be promoting.

This thread is almost certainly going to play out the same as that forum: A handful shouting loudly that their views are so important that FT MUST give them a place to be heard. And the rest of the community ignoring the shouting because they've realized it is all just noise.

Last edited by sbm12; Aug 12, 16 at 8:39 am
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Old Aug 12, 16, 8:21 am
  #47  
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Originally Posted by CokeandTaco View Post
If the forum is closed, where will future EMPR content/topics reside on FT?
I can imagine some could go to Miles Buzz! But do we need to have a lot of these conversations? Running dialogues about bloggers making spelling mistakes or transgressions they committed years ago? Cui Bono and all.
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Old Aug 12, 16, 10:22 am
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
This thread is almost certainly going to play out the same as that forum: A handful shouting loudly that their views are so important that FT MUST give them a place to be heard. And the rest of the community ignoring the shouting because they've realized it is all just noise.
So, just like pretty much every other thread in every forum?

I don't see anyone shouting. What I do see are that the people that are against EMPR can't provide any concrete reasons why, just accusations.

cblaisd hasn't provided a single example.
kellio33 called it a cesspool, yet has a post in OMNI telling a TB member to "just pass on by or let the mods take care of it if you don't feel it's appropriate".
You and cblaisd questioned the level of moderating.

Honestly the level of kvetching in this thread is on par with most threads in EMPR.

I don't go to the vast majority of forums on FT because they aren't of interest to me. My question is if you don't find value in the EMPR forum, why do you visit?
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Old Aug 12, 16, 10:24 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by bthotugigem05 View Post
I think that board started out with the noblest of intents but it has turned into a snark/criticism/bashing board. In the past two months the "Post to share unique blog posts with original content" topic has exactly one post on it. It just seems that people are not looking to share unique things that they've learned from bloggers, rather they have simply found an area to criticize (for the most part) 3-4 bloggers over and over again.
Have you considered that the lack of recent posts in that thread might reflect the lack of unique or original content in most blogs today?
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Old Aug 12, 16, 11:20 am
  #50  
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
This thread is almost certainly going to play out the same as that forum: A handful shouting loudly that their views are so important that FT MUST give them a place to be heard. And the rest of the community ignoring the shouting because they've realized it is all just noise.
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Old Aug 12, 16, 11:34 am
  #51  
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
Wait a minute... didn't you recently post the following?
Indeed. It may be worth repeating some forum closure advice given recently:

Originally Posted by bdschobel
I posit that Flyertalk should give more weight to people who want forums retained than to people who want forums removed. The latter group gains essentially nothing by getting their way. They can easily just not go to a part of this site that they see as unnecessary or redundant. The former group actually would lose something they value. Whose interests should Talkboard serve?
Originally Posted by sbm12
This thread is almost certainly going to play out the same as that forum: A handful shouting loudly that their views are so important that FT MUST give them a place to be heard.
That's how this forum was created in the first place so why would a thread on EMPR be any different?

Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
And interesting response (which encompasses a lot of things pertaining to the forum:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22368813-post300.html
Yes, a reminder than not only did I point out 2+ years ago that EMPR consisted almost exclusively about talking about bloggers as OP now finds but that post came in a debate which saw many members - yourself included - supportive of moving the forum into Miles & Points section which luckily didn't happen.

As I wasn't in favor of EMPR from the start it wouldn't trouble me to see it shuttered however given TB's reluctance to close forums with topics that don't easily fit elsewhere as was so recently reiterated it would be very hypocritical to close this one for reasons of content.
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Old Aug 12, 16, 9:00 pm
  #52  
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OMNI/PR bothers some people and this form bothers other.

Doesn't seem to be a reason to make either forum go away, though. It's easy to make it so you never have to see either.

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Old Aug 12, 16, 10:48 pm
  #53  
 
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Discussing the writers on OMAAT and their qualifications should be fair game.

Last edited by JDiver; Aug 12, 16 at 11:17 pm Reason: Redacted previously deleted post content
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Old Aug 12, 16, 11:19 pm
  #54  
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My initial reaction to this issue is that the argument that people who don't like the forum don't need to visit that was applied to the case of smoking is equally applicable here.

If some people think that EM&PR should be more heavily moderated, they should communicate their concerns to our Community Director.
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Old Aug 12, 16, 11:25 pm
  #55  
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There is a topic to this thread and a purpose to this forum.

Rehash or critique of posts in another forum are best dealt with in that forum or with that forum's moderators. Discussion of moderation in another forum is best taken up with that forum's moderators.

Overly offensive or personalized comments and obscenities do not beling here, or elsewhere on FlyerTalk.

Thank you.

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Old Aug 13, 16, 9:18 am
  #56  
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Since I don't follow the blogs, nor do I know many of the FT handles of those running them, I'm curious as to how often these commercial enterprises now contribute to FT, other than defending their blog.

Of a few that I'm aware, only one does with any regularity, and it's the one who has the best reputation. The others are long gone. They may be a member, but beyond checking to see what may be written about them (if they do), I haven't seen them in ages.
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Old Aug 13, 16, 10:43 am
  #57  
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There are a couple bloggers who were major contributors to FT earlier. IMO they're not in the same category as many of the other bloggers. Also, I can easily count four bloggers who currently are reasonably active on FT, although IMO the qualities of these blogs vary.
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Old Aug 13, 16, 10:48 am
  #58  
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But categories don't matter.... the forum can include comments on the blogs, but what I've seen it's mostly about the content (or the lack thereof). And yes, sometimes about the blogger (as the business) for instance when people start calling themselves superlatives.

Why treat those that might have contributed something years ago any differently....
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Old Aug 13, 16, 11:37 am
  #59  
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
The argument here has nothing to do with popularity, everyone admits the forum is popular. The argument being presented is the forum adds nothing of value to this website.
If a forum is popular then by definition it adds value to this website and its users (not to mention this website's owners).
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Old Aug 13, 16, 3:31 pm
  #60  
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is discussing the existence of things like personal attacks considered discussing moderation?

if the forum was eliminated >
are threads eliminated or moved
could another forum replace it
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