Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Community > TalkBoard Topics
Reload this Page >

Voting Ended / Motion Passed: Creation of a Smoking Section

Voting Ended / Motion Passed: Creation of a Smoking Section

 
Old Jul 2, 15, 3:06 am
  #121  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by Dovster View Post
Those same teenagers, who have seen health warnings about cigarettes from the day they were born, have either decided not to smoke because of them or else ignored them (as teens tend to think they are invulnerable).

What they might not know, however, is the number of non health related problems they will face if they start smoking.

Should they go to this proposed forum, they will learn about them. I doubt that they will be turned on by learning that it is almost impossible, no matter what your status, to get an upgraded room at most hotels if you want to smoke.

I don't think they will get excited to learn that out of over 20 HHonors hotels in Manhattan, only two allow smoking.

I doubt they will be thrilled to learn that at many airports if you want to light up during a long connection you have to go outside even if it is the middle of winter and snowing and then come back through the TSA line.

I can't see them looking forward to not being able to rent a car and smoke in it or, if they do find an agency which allows it, to always get the oldest car in the worse condition.

I suspect that it will not be a big plus for them to find out that if they want to smoke in the airport in Prague they will have to go to one of two bar/restaurants where the prices are about double.

These are the conditions that travelers who smoke face on a regular basis. If you really want to make a contribution towards reducing teen smoking don't waste your time with additional health warnings -- instead, push for this forum to be established and then ask your local high school to make it part of the mandatory reading in a health education class.
Teens do tend to think they are invincible, and their decision-making capabilities are not fully developed, which is why it is especially important not to glamorize smoking to them.

I think you are missing the hidden curriculum of a forum where elite flyertalkers discuss how and where they smoke as they jet around the planet, eschewing warnings about health effects and air pollution. I'm not saying the forum shouldn't exist, but the mere presence of the forum would send the message to kids that smoking is socially acceptable, and yes, even cool.

It would have to be carefully moderated and ideally a private, age-restricted forum like other tobacco/alcohol-related sites. FT's media parent is based in California, where the legal smoking age is 18 (though there are talks of raising it to 21), and I can't imagine they would want to run the risk of glamorizing smoking to underage kids.
valedecem is offline  
Old Jul 2, 15, 3:25 am
  #122  
Moderator: Marriott Bonvoy & Travel with Children
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,697
"Hidden curriculum"? "Glamorizing smoking to underage kids"? Are you serious? The proposed new forum would do nothing of the kind. That's your imagination running wild.

Regarding your suggestion of an age restriction such as 18 and older, I'll point out the obvious fact that this is the Internet! Nobody knows how old anyone really is on FlyerTalk. It's silly to pretend that we could know.

Bruce
bdschobel is offline  
Old Jul 2, 15, 3:44 am
  #123  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,069
Originally Posted by Dovster View Post
What they might not know, however, is the number of non health related problems they will face if they start smoking.

Should they go to this proposed forum, they will learn about them.
Yes, teen smokers, who may have just taken up this addiction, or may have tried a couple cigarettes and not decided on their path forward, will surely want to know about where in airports and hotels they can smoke. The message should be that they shouldn't start smoking at all and we should not encourage them to access a forum without some type of warning. FT and Internet Brands should take a proactive stance to discourage teen smoking. 9 of 10 smokers have their first smoking experience before 18. 480,000 Americans die each year from smoking related health issues. The demographic we should be sending a message to is those under 18 thinking about smoking, and the message shouldn't be "here's where you can smoke". It should be a strongly worded message such as the Surgeon General's messages right in the forum description, and maybe even at the top of the forum wiki once it's established.

If the Surgeon General's warning is posted at the entry point to that forum, FT can show in a very limited capacity that we care about the deadly path teen smokers will be heading once they decide to smoke.

When I see members say it's no different than Traveling with Pets, or the Religious Travelers forum, I ask myself whether 480,000 Americans have died due to Travel with Pets or in search of religious sites, or whether the CDC has issued warning about pets or religion. Can't find anything. Smoking, on the other hand, they're very clear about. We need to do what we can to deter teen smoking.
tom911 is online now  
Old Jul 2, 15, 3:49 am
  #124  
Moderator: Marriott Bonvoy & Travel with Children
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,697
I am really astonished at the (fortunately, small) number of posts concerned that creating a forum where smokers could discuss the issues -- mostly problems -- of traveling as a smoker somehow, perversely, "encourages" or even "glamorizes" smoking. Where do people get that idea?

I moderate the Travel with Children forum. To my knowledge, the existence of this forum has not encouraged anybody to run out and have a child -- especially so that they can experience the problems of traveling with one! I am unaware of any underage Flyertalkers suddenly desiring to have children on account of that forum or anything posted there.

The existence of the Traveling with Pets forum has not encouraged me to get a pet. Shockingly, the existence of the LGBT forum has not, to my knowledge, changed anyone's sexual orientation. Do anonymous posts on the Internet really have such power? Does anyone really believe that?

Bruce
bdschobel is offline  
Old Jul 2, 15, 4:00 am
  #125  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,069
Originally Posted by valedecem View Post
FT's media parent is based in California, where the legal smoking age is 18 (though there are talks of raising it to 21), and I can't imagine they would want to run the risk of glamorizing smoking to underage kids.
Internet Brands is not participating in this thread so hard to guess what their official position is on having a smokers forum on their site. They do own several health-related sites. I know if I go to the Marlboro site, which I just did for the first time ever, they don't let me in there without a bunch of information, including:

You must use the date of birth, name (no nicknames or abbreviations) and mailing address that match your valid driver's license or government-issued ID so we can confirm your information.
Looks like they want to keep teens off their website and have some method to verify age as you must be 21. I can't see FT going that far, but a warning about the health effects of smoking directed at a teen audience would be a good first step.
tom911 is online now  
Old Jul 2, 15, 4:09 am
  #126  
Moderator: Marriott Bonvoy & Travel with Children
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,697
FlyerTalk is fundamentally a travel site. Travel sites are not in the business of giving (or even merely repeating) health warnings.

If you are booking a hotel room on Expedia or any of the countless other sites that conduct such business, and you want to request a smoking room, does the website first make you read a warning about the dangers of smoking? Of course not. It's not the proper role of a travel-related site.

Some travelers drink too much, especially when they are actually away from home. Some cheat on their spouses. Should FlyerTalk warn people about those bad behaviors, too? If not, why not? What's so special about smoking that FlyerTalk should single it out for health warnings?

Bruce
bdschobel is offline  
Old Jul 2, 15, 4:09 am
  #127  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Owner, Green Bay Packers
Posts: 21,690
Cool

Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
Internet Brands is not participating in this thread so hard to guess what their official position is on having a smokers forum on their site. They do own several health-related sites. I know if I go to the Marlboro site, which I just did for the first time ever, they don't let me in there without a bunch of information, including:



Looks like they want to keep teens off their website and have some method to verify age as you must be 21. I can't see FT going that far, but a warning about the health effects of smoking directed at a teen audience would be a good first step.
Looks like they want to collect a bunch of marketing information to me....
Doc Savage is offline  
Old Jul 2, 15, 4:28 am
  #128  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,069
Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
FlyerTalk is fundamentally a travel site. Travel sites are not in the business of giving (or even merely repeating) health warnings.
Have you been to many travel sites with dedicated smoking forums, though? I can't think of any I've been to and this topic is entirely new to FT. When 480,000 Americans die a year from smoking related health issues, and 9 out of 10 smokers have their first smoking experience before 18, FT needs to send a clear message to teens that smoking kills. I don't care about those that have been smoking for 30-40 years but specifically about teens. Let's be clear: I also support the creation of a smokers forums with a warning. If we treat the smoking forum the same as an airline or hotel forum, it sends the message that everything is just fine with smoking and we're not concerned. We all should be concerned about teen smokers.

I would hope that Internet Brands takes the socially responsible position of placing a warning on the forum directed at teens who are considering smoking, warning them of the serious health consequences, if the Talk Board doesn't. We don't need a similar warning on the AA or Marriott forums because those topics don't result in 480,000 American deaths a year.
tom911 is online now  
Old Jul 2, 15, 4:34 am
  #129  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,069
Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
What's so special about smoking that FlyerTalk should single it out for health warnings?
Let's start with these:

Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death.
Worldwide, tobacco use causes nearly 6 million deaths per year, and current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030.
Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including an estimated 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.
On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.
If smoking continues at the current rate among U.S. youth, 5.6 million of today’s Americans younger than 18 years of age are expected to die prematurely from a smoking-related illness. This represents about one in every 13 Americans aged 17 years or younger who are alive today.
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_stat...ts/fast_facts/

Tobacco use is started and established primarily during adolescence.
Nearly 9 out of 10 cigarette smokers first tried smoking by age 18, and 99% first tried smoking by age 26.
Each day in the United States, more than 3,800 youth aged 18 years or younger smoke their first cigarette, and an additional 2,100 youth and young adults become daily cigarette smokers.

Youth use of tobacco in any form is unsafe.

If smoking continues at the current rate among youth in this country, 5.6 million of today’s Americans younger than 18 will die early from a smoking-related illness. That’s about 1 of every 13 Americans aged 17 years or younger alive today.
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_stat...a/tobacco_use/

Again, I'm looking for a warning directed at teen smokers in the forum description. They're the group that is just starting down the path of smoking.
tom911 is online now  
Old Jul 2, 15, 4:47 am
  #130  
Moderator: Marriott Bonvoy & Travel with Children
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,697
First of all, how many teenagers are the kind of frequent flyers who would use FlyerTalk? Probably not very many.

Secondly, I will merely observe that nobody posting here has ever suggested that he or she might take up smoking if FlyerTalk creates a smokers' forum. No, it's never one of us. We're too smart for that! It's always some other guy -- someone so gullible or easily influenced that the existence of a smokers' forum here might push him over the edge into smoker-land. Do such people actually exist? Or are we worried about fantasy creatures like unicorns?

Sure, some people smoke. Smoking is a serious health risk, beyond debate. But what does FlyerTalk have to do with that? Doesn't FlyerTalk simply exist in a world with smokers, neither creating nor encouraging them? And is FlyerTalk responsible in any way for discouraging smoking? I don't think so. Smokers get plenty of discouragement already from other sources.

Bruce
bdschobel is offline  
Old Jul 2, 15, 5:43 am
  #131  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 61,745
Originally Posted by valedecem View Post
I can't imagine they would want to run the risk of glamorizing smoking to underage kids.
Originally Posted by Absolutely Nobody
It was a beautiful spring evening in New York and I had a three hour connection on my way to Las Vegas, so I went outside to light up a smoke.

A moment later, a gorgeous blonde walked up to me, took out a cigarette, and asked me if I could give her a light. As a true gentleman would, I took out my solid gold Dunhill lighter and held it up to her cigarette. Our hands touched and it was a magic, electric, moment between the two of us.

"I always like meeting fellow smokers," she said to me, "especially men. Any real man I have ever met smoked."

After a few minutes of chatting she mentioned that she was taking the same flight to LAS that I was. We walked back inside the terminal and went to the check in counter. I told the agent that I was flying in First Class and the lady was going in Economy. I asked if we could switch seats.

"Don't be silly," the agent replied. "I was standing near you having my own cigarette and saw the two of you smoking. I always upgrade smokers to FC, and there is no problem to put the two of you next to each other."

When we arrived at the Bellagio, we asked to have our separate reservations merged into one and get a suite instead of two separate rooms. That was done immediately and the hotel even gave us a luxury suite for the same price as one small room.

We spent the week together and when we returned to New York she went home and I had to connect to my flight to Tel Aviv. I went outside for a smoke and, a moment later, a gorgeous Israeli brunette walked up to me, took out a cigarette, and asked me if I could give her a light...
That post would be glamorizing smoking and while it might fit on Omni, it certainly would not meet the requirements of a Smoking Forum. Of course, I have never heard of such a thing happening in real life -- certainly, and unfortunately, not to me. For all of that, if someone does make such a post on the Smoking Forum I promise to RBP it as being off topic for the forum.

On the other hand, what did happen to me in real life would fit perfectly on the forum. Last year, I stayed at the ATL Hilton and called them in October to ask to have the same corner room reserved for my award stay in January. I was told that the hotel no longer allows smoking.

I then made an award reservation on line for a smoking room at the ATL Embassy Suites. It was confirmed but a few days before my arrival I called the ES to ask if I could get early check in and was told that renovations had been completed sooner than expected and it is now smoke-free.

After careful search, the only ATL hotel I could find which both allowed smoking and had a courtesy bus from the airport was a Microtel which was in very bad shape and, of course, I could not use my HHonors points there. I had to pay cash.

The post would be on topic for a Smokers Forum as it:

1. Lets smokers know that neither the Hilton nor the ES allow smoking any longer.

2. They can stay at the Microtel.

3. It is always a good idea to confirm before arrival that your hotel hasn't changed its policy.

Does my real life experience seem glamorous to you in any way?
Dovster is offline  
Old Jul 2, 15, 5:44 am
  #132  
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 16,727
Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
Again, I'm looking for a warning directed at teen smokers in the forum description. They're the group that is just starting down the path of smoking.
This is FlyerTalk, not NHS Direct.

No one reads warnings, least of all teenagers!


The emerging thread of this discussion ("why smoking is bad—you guys probably haven't heard the news yet, so let me explain it to you") is probably the best argument against the smokers' forum proposal. It will be a magnet for this kind of invective. In my view, at least.

Last edited by Calchas; Jul 2, 15 at 7:11 am
Calchas is offline  
Old Jul 2, 15, 5:55 am
  #133  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 61,745
Originally Posted by Calchas View Post
The emerging thread of this discussion ("why smoking is bad—you guys probably haven't heard the news yet, so let me explain it to you") is probably the best argument against the smokers' forum proposal. It will be a magnet for this kind of invective. In my view, at least.
It would also be off topic for a forum which is dedicated to telling where you can smoke, not whether smoking is good or bad. I would believe that any moderator assigned to the forum would remove such posts -- just as any moderator on the GLBT Forum would remove a post announcing that gay sex would result in an eternity of damnation.
Dovster is offline  
Old Jul 2, 15, 5:56 am
  #134  
Moderator: Marriott Bonvoy & Travel with Children
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,697
That's what moderators are for!

Bruce
bdschobel is offline  
Old Jul 2, 15, 6:34 am
  #135  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 36
In favor, and yes, I smoke.
LUPY48 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread