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Voting Ended / Motion Passed: Creation of a Smoking Section

Voting Ended / Motion Passed: Creation of a Smoking Section

 

Old Oct 14, 15, 9:25 pm
  #451  
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
I too want to see answers to the questionnaire but I realize that they're best paired with common sense and numerous other factors.
Yet in recent weeks the questionnaire has not been used at all-- that's what I'm trying to highlight. Why can't the Talk Board be consistent? If that questionnaire still has some value for Talk Board members in the Copa thread, as you indicate it has some value to you, why isn't it posted every time someone asks for a new forum or to close an existing forum? That's my concern. We should not pick and choose which forum requests get a questionnaire requirement. Is it valuable all the time or only valuable when a single Talk Board member decides its valuable and posts it in a thread?

For example, and I've cited these before, the questionnaire was not used in the creation of a smokers forum (I raised that back in June with no Talk Board member response - not a single one answered me when I raised the topic) or for the proposal to close the gambling forum. It was not raised in the discussion to close Travel News until that thread was 3 weeks old.

I just want some consistency. We shouldn't have to flip a coin to decide what forum requests or closure requests get directed to the questionnaire.

When I see new forum requests, should I post the questionnaire as I've done in past years? Who decides what requests get the questionnaire and what requests do not?
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Old Oct 14, 15, 9:30 pm
  #452  
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Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
Yet in recent weeks the questionnaire has not been used at all-- that's what I'm trying to highlight. Why can't the Talk Board be consistent? If that questionnaire still has some value for Talk Board members in the Copa thread, as you indicate it has some value to you, why isn't it posted every time someone asks for a new forum or to close an existing forum? That's my concern. We should not pick and choose which forum requests get a questionnaire requirement. Is it valuable all the time or only valuable when a single Talk Board member decides its valuable and posts it in a thread?

For example, and I've cited these before, the questionnaire was not used in the creation of a smokers forum (I raised that back in June with no Talk Board member response - not a single one answered me when I raised the topic) or for the proposal to close the gambling forum. It was not raised in the discussion to close Travel News until that thread was 3 weeks old.

I just want some consistency. We shouldn't have to flip a coin to decide what forum requests or closure requests get directed to the questionnaire.

When I see new forum requests, should I post the questionnaire as I've done in past years? Who decides what requests get the questionnaire and what requests do not?
Agree and it could be sought and provided in each new forum request but it left up to each TB member as to how much if any weight to give the answers in their decision making.
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Old Oct 14, 15, 9:32 pm
  #453  
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Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
Agree and it could be sought and provided in each new forum request but it left up to each TB member as to how much if any weight to give the answers in their decision making.
And I'm completely fine with that.
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Old Oct 14, 15, 9:46 pm
  #454  
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Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
Yet we do have a Talk Board member that just yesterday asked for the questionnaire to be completed in a proposal for a new Copa forum. Is there even agreement among the Talk Board members about that questionnaire? A member not on the Talk Board posted the entire questionnaire in the Copa thread. Clearly some want it to be used. I just wish the policy was consistent across all proposals for new forums.

If a majority of the Talk Board finds no value in the questionnaire, which was voted in by the 2009 Talk Board, get rid of it.
I was that TB member. My SOP is that I want to see the data as well as opinions from FT members, then I add my own judgment before deciding.

ADDED (partly in response to post #451 above): My stance is that we should see the questionnaire answers for all new forum proposals, rather than apply the requirement selectively. Personally I think it's wrong to ask for the questionnaire only for *some* proposed new fora. Still, this is not at all the same as having the questionnaire alone determine my vote.

In other words, show me the data but I will still listen to opinions and exercise my own judgment.
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Old Oct 14, 15, 9:53 pm
  #455  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
My stance is that we should see the questionnaire answers for all new forum proposals, rather than apply the requirement selectively. Personally I think it's wrong to ask for the questionnaire only for *some* proposed new fora. Still, this is not at all the same as having the questionnaire alone determine my vote.
This is a sensible approach. I hope other Talk Board members can buy into it.
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Old Oct 14, 15, 9:59 pm
  #456  
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Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
This is a sensible approach. I hope other Talk Board members can buy into it.
Thank you. I try.
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Old Oct 14, 15, 10:07 pm
  #457  
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In the year since I was elected a member of TalkBoard, a total of three new forums were created; but eight forums were closed.

As for the smoking forum, I initially took into account the questionnaire and numbers; but then I listened to what fellow FlyerTalk members had to say.
Originally Posted by Canarsie View Post
I would like to remind everyone that the purpose of TalkBoard is to submit recommendations based on the input of FlyerTalk members, whom we represent.

  • We do not have the power to create or close forums.
  • We are not employees of Internet Brands.
  • We have no control over any community directors of FlyerTalk.
  • We are not attorneys who are versed on legal issues.
  • We are not experts on information technology.

We simply submit recommendations. The powers of members of TalkBoard are not exactly all-encompassing and absolute. We are not out to create forums just for the sake of creating forums. As far as I am concerned, if a forum serves a need, it should exist. If a need for FlyerTalk members is not being served, they are then voted to be closed, as has happened to four separate forums recently.

Speaking for myself, I attempt to parse the input of fellow members of FlyerTalk to find out what can be done to improve FlyerTalk. I then communicate with other members of TalkBoard to find out what they think. Sometimes I agree with them. Sometimes I do not agree with them.

If a motion to vote comes to fruition and I am convinced one way or another, I vote in a manner in which I believe is best for the membership of FlyerTalk.

In this particular case, I have voted in favor of the creation of the proposed forum for smokers — despite the fact that I am vehemently against the entire concept of smoking and believe it should be abolished. I have lost family members to lung cancer. I seem to be the person to whom smokers inexplicably like to congregate adjacent despite having acres of room to go elsewhere; and I can drone on all day about how my right to breathe clean air is being breached.

Why, then, did I vote for this motion to pass? Because in my opinion, the FlyerTalk members who have weighed in on the proposed forum have demonstrated to me that there is a need for it.

I have met many FlyerTalk members over the years; and I cannot believe how many of them smoke. It is a disgusting and dangerous habit which I wish I could just wave a magic wand and have it disappear altogether for everyone; but for me to proselytize my adamant beliefs into a vote would be a significant disservice to the FlyerTalk members whom I serve.

To reiterate, the purpose of the proposed forum is not to glamorize or promote smoking of any substance — just as existing special interest forums do not promote a same-sex lifestyle or having a pet. It is simply to assist those FlyerTalk members who smoke to be able to travel — even if just a little bit easier...

...and I know first-hand that Internet Brands has a legal department. If the attorneys in the legal department deem it necessary to add an anti-smoking disclaimer to the proposed forum should the motion be passed, so be it. I am neither for or against that happening...
Based on what they posted, I went with my judgment to support the establishment of the smoking forum.
Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
Agree and it could be sought and provided in each new forum request but it left up to each TB member as to how much if any weight to give the answers in their decision making.
Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
And I'm completely fine with that.
...which is exactly what I did with regard to supporting the smoking forum — but I am, of course, speaking for myself; and I ensured that my thoughts were completely transparent to all FlyerTalk members who wanted to know of them.

I am not sure of what else I am supposed to do to satisfy the criticisms pertaining to my role in support of the smoking forum...?!?
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Old Oct 14, 15, 10:31 pm
  #458  
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Originally Posted by Canarsie View Post
As for the smoking forum, I initially took into account the questionnaire and numbers; but then I listened to what fellow FlyerTalk members had to say.
Was the Talk Board questionnaire ever answered by anyone? I took a second look at the original discussion thread where I raised the topic, and don't see it answered there. Or, are you saying you weighed the various issues and decided the questionnaire wouldn't be needed in this case?
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Old Oct 14, 15, 10:34 pm
  #459  
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Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
Was the Talk Board questionnaire ever answered by anyone? I took a second look at the original discussion thread where I raised the topic, and don't see it answered there. Or, are you saying you weighed the various issues and decided the questionnaire wouldn't be needed in this case?
Enough with the questionnaire. What is this, the Flyertalk version of Benghazi? Dozens of people expressed support for this forum and their arguments were logical and persuasive. The questionnaire is not a requirement. It's helpful but not necessary as I said earlier.
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Old Oct 14, 15, 10:46 pm
  #460  
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I'm sorry my questions are upsetting you. This will be my final post in this thread.
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Old Oct 15, 15, 12:05 am
  #461  
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Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
Was the Talk Board questionnaire ever answered by anyone? I took a second look at the original discussion thread where I raised the topic, and don't see it answered there. Or, are you saying you weighed the various issues and decided the questionnaire wouldn't be needed in this case?
I did not decide that the questionnaire would not be needed; as it was factored in to my decision...

...but proponents of the forum cited their points of view in what seemed to be more of a niche forum — as with the other forums under the special interests section of FlyerTalk — and their comments persuaded me to vote in favor of it.

I have never smoked and have in fact always despised smoking in general, so the existence of a smoking forum does not matter to me personally; but I listened to both sides of the debate and ultimately felt that it was important enough to fellow FlyerTalk members who smoke to vote in support of it.

The questionnaire is but one of a number of factors which weigh into the decisions at which I arrive. My judgment is another.

All I am trying to do is help to improve FlyerTalk — nothing more. I hope that my record on FlyerTalk supports and proves that statement.
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Old Oct 15, 15, 7:07 am
  #462  
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Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
Agree and it could be sought and provided in each new forum request but it left up to each TB member as to how much if any weight to give the answers in their decision making.
I will continue to say that asking members to fill out long questionnaires seems to me to be TalkBoard asking members to do their jobs for them...or is a way to erect unnecessarily high barriers to new forum creation. After all, are we running out of Internet space?

When I was on TalkBoard we had one TB member who *always* sent out a questionnaire for each new request -- I was reasonably fine with that....*as long as* it was never held up as a requirement for a motion to be raised to create the forum. That said, individual TalkBoard members who were not me *could* decide that filling out the questionnaire was required in order to get that TB members vote. That's up to that TB member, of course.
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Old Oct 15, 15, 8:19 am
  #463  
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
When I was on TalkBoard we had one TB member who *always* sent out a questionnaire for each new request -- I was reasonably fine with that....*as long as* it was never held up as a requirement for a motion to be raised to create the forum. That said, individual TalkBoard members who were not me *could* decide that filling out the questionnaire was required in order to get that TB members vote. That's up to that TB member, of course.
I was probably that TB member (or maybe not). I know I would post the questionnaire because often folk would suggest a forum but not know much about how TB comes up w/ their recommendations to the CD/IB or how to move forward. And the answers (or lack there of) could help TB members in determining whether to move forward w/ creating a forum. But I don't know of any TB members over the years that said the questionnaire was the sole criteria for voting yes/no on a forum. As others have noted, FTers voted for us to use our judgment.

Cheers.
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Old Aug 6, 16, 9:56 am
  #464  
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Posts discussing CLOSING the Smoking Section forum have been moved to maintain the original purpose of this thread.

See Closing the Smoking Section Forum.

My apologies for any possible disruption (e.g. you are subscribed to this thread).

Thank you for your understanding.

JDiver, Moderator

Last edited by JDiver; Aug 15, 16 at 5:03 pm
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