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Voting Ended - Motion Passed: Renaming Car Rental Programs/Partners & adding forum

Voting Ended - Motion Passed: Renaming Car Rental Programs/Partners & adding forum

 
Old Apr 27, 15, 12:22 pm
  #1  
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Voting Ended - Motion Passed: Renaming Car Rental Programs/Partners & adding forum

Moved by CMK10 and seconded by bdschobel:

TalkBoard recommends renaming the heading "Car Rental Programs/Partners" to become "Car Rental Programs and Ride Services"

TalkBoard recommends creation of a new forum at the top position under that heading entitled "Ride Services, including Uber and Lyft".



This vote will close on May 13, 2015 , at 3:00PM* CST or after all TalkBoard members have registered their vote, whichever comes first.





Per the TalkBoard Guidelines:

A motion shall pass if at least two-thirds of the yes or no votes cast by TalkBoard members are ‘yes’ and a majority of the total TalkBoard membership votes 'yes' after voting opens 2 days after a site-wide announcement.

The purpose of posting voting topics in the public TalkBoard Topics forum is to solicit member feedback on any motions that are up for a vote and to allow for comments after a vote is made. It is at the sole discretion of the individual TalkBoard members whether they choose to post in the public discussion thread, there being no requirement to do so.

So while there is already a thread and discussion on this general topic and it is safe to assume that TalkBoard members have reviewed that thread, this thread is about this specific motion.

Please feel free to post questions, comments or any other sort of feedback in this thread or the discussion thread found here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...flyertalk.html


*will revise exact time once site-wide announcement is made
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Old Apr 27, 15, 1:05 pm
  #2  
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Oppose. There were some very good alternatives being debated in the other thread before this motion was made and feel they should be explored further.
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Old Apr 27, 15, 1:32 pm
  #3  
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Oppose.

I have used Uber in many cities spanning three continents. As the service varies widely in different locations, the existing Destinations forums are my go to place for discussion of Uber. It works well, so why change it?

Discussion of Uber and Lyft rarely occurs in isolation - they are simply alternatives to other ground transportation options available in each city they operate in, so splitting Uber discussion away from the alternatives will create duplication and ultimately cause confusion.

There are a myriad of other mobile booking providers offering comparable single ride services as Uber and Lyft but there is no explanation as to why Uber and Lyft should be singled out. Halo, for example is expanding its coverage across European cities. Is it TalkBoard's expectation that Halo related topics continue in the respective Destination forums?

Ten threads started over a 4 year period in TravelBuzz covering generic Uber/Lyft issues does not demonstrate sufficient demand for a dedicated forum.

Finally, inserting a separate ground transportation forum in the Mile&Points section is counter intuitive; it will jar with the existing forum structure.
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Old Apr 27, 15, 1:49 pm
  #4  
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Originally Posted by Prospero View Post
...Ten threads started over a 4 year period in TravelBuzz covering generic Uber/Lyft issues does not demonstrate sufficient demand for a dedicated forum.

Finally, inserting a separate ground transportation forum in the Mile&Points section is counter intuitive; it will jar with the existing forum structure.
Ten threads appeared despite the lack of a natural place for them. Perhaps with a forum, we'll see many more. Who knows? But the fact that there were ten in 4 years proves nothing.

We aren't "inserting" a separate "ground transportation" forum. The car-rental forum is already there. We are merely expanding it to cover ride-service companies. And it's not so broad as to cover all forms of ground transportation. It doesn't include Amtrak or Greyhound, for instance.

Bruce
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Old Apr 27, 15, 2:26 pm
  #5  
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Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
Ten threads appeared despite the lack of a natural place for them. Perhaps with a forum, we'll see many more. Who knows? But the fact that there were ten in 4 years proves nothing.
It proves a lack of demand which is what TB used to look at first when considering forum creation. The 'build it and they will come' approach hasn't worked well in recent years as some new forums sit almost idle while TB opts not to follow its own guidelines and conduct an annual forum traffic review with an eye to shuttering lightly used fora.
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Old Apr 27, 15, 2:43 pm
  #6  
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Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
Ten threads appeared despite the lack of a natural place for them. Perhaps with a forum, we'll see many more. Who knows? But the fact that there were ten in 4 years proves nothing.

We aren't "inserting" a separate "ground transportation" forum. The car-rental forum is already there. We are merely expanding it to cover ride-service companies. And it's not so broad as to cover all forms of ground transportation. It doesn't include Amtrak or Greyhound, for instance.

Bruce
Sorry, I’m not following you. I would have thought TravelBuzz is absolutely the natural place for generic Uber topics.

If you were to put yourself in the shoes of someone who relies on the forum structure to navigate their way to each forum, if you were interested in Uber would you click on Miles&Points? I wouldn’t - it is just not a logical signpost for the subject. I’d go immediately to Destinations menu, then to the desired local forum.

To me the connection between chauffeured car services and car rentals is very slender so it seems illogical to lump the two together. Uber has so much more in common with local taxi rail and bus services. It is proven so because currently that's where the bulk of the traffic is going.

I am actually open to suggestion but without a clear narrative supporting this proposal, it is difficult to see merit - which I am sure there must be otherwise TalkBoard would not have put forward this proposal.
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Old Apr 27, 15, 2:53 pm
  #7  
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Originally Posted by Pub24 View Post
...perhaps if FT opens a forum on elephant rentals, there will be tons of new threads. Who knows? Would you second that proposal?
Now that's something I've actually done! I have not yet used a ride-service company like Uber or Lyft. Unfortunately, I suspect that elephant rentals are a rather limited market.

Bruce
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Old Apr 27, 15, 2:55 pm
  #8  
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Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
It proves a lack of demand which is what TB used to look at first when considering forum creation. The 'build it and they will come' approach hasn't worked well in recent years as some new forums sit almost idle while TB opts not to follow its own guidelines and conduct an annual forum traffic review with an eye to shuttering lightly used fora.
"Proving" a lack of demand is nearly impossible, as you must know. How much demand was there for personal computers before they existed? Uber and Lyft (and are there others?) are so new and growing so quickly that looking to the past to gauge demand is foolhardy.

Bruce
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Old Apr 27, 15, 4:13 pm
  #9  
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Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
"Proving" a lack of demand is nearly impossible
Not, it's actually not as 10 threads started over a 4 year period in TravelBuzz hardly constitutes enough demand to warrant forum creation. If there were a massive unmet need we'd see dozens or hundreds of threads scattered over multiple forums but that quite obviously isn't the case. Foolhardy is continuing to create more & more forums based on nothing more than imagined future demand.
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Old Apr 27, 15, 5:05 pm
  #10  
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Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
"Proving" a lack of demand is nearly impossible, as you must know. How much demand was there for personal computers before they existed? Uber and Lyft (and are there others?) are so new and growing so quickly that looking to the past to gauge demand is foolhardy.

Bruce
This leads to my concern about having a separate forum. Sure, the Uber phenomenon has been transformational but it is not unique. I live in a large European metropolitan centre - we have Uber. I suppose I am a little blasé about booking a taxi on the go because in the last couple of years I have also been able to book train tickets, bus tickets, taxis and other private hire journeys on the go, so Uber or the concept of smart phone booking is by no means unique or magical to me. It is just one example amongst many others where technology has enhanced our lives.

As a non-mandarin speaking visitor to Shanghai, Uber has been a god send. It has removed the frustration of translation and miscommunication from the transaction and I am comforted knowing my driver knows exactly where I wish to go and how to get there. This is a contextually dependent example well understood and covered in the China forum. My fear is the invaluable local knowledgebases will not port over to the proposed generic forum.
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Old Apr 27, 15, 6:04 pm
  #11  
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I'm disappointed that 14 hours after option #1 and #2 were mentioned in the other thread, and TB members who posted after the 2 options were brought up were split on which one they preferred, that we suddenly have a motion and now a vote.

I expected TB would want more input on the 2 options before going to a motion, if they even went to one at all. Again, disappointing.

Cheers.
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Old Apr 27, 15, 7:37 pm
  #12  
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Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
Ten threads appeared despite the lack of a natural place for them. Perhaps with a forum, we'll see many more. Who knows? But the fact that there were ten in 4 years proves nothing.

We aren't "inserting" a separate "ground transportation" forum. The car-rental forum is already there. We are merely expanding it to cover ride-service companies. And it's not so broad as to cover all forms of ground transportation. It doesn't include Amtrak or Greyhound, for instance.

Bruce
What are the guidelines for closing the forum? Will TalkBoard close it if there are only 2 or 3 threads in a year? Will TalkBoard follow their guidelines about reviewing forum traffic to close forums that aren't used much, or will it only prompt TalkBoard to ignore those guidelines even more?
Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
It proves a lack of demand which is what TB used to look at first when considering forum creation. The 'build it and they will come' approach hasn't worked well in recent years as some new forums sit almost idle while TB opts not to follow its own guidelines and conduct an annual forum traffic review with an eye to shuttering lightly used fora.
This.
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Old Apr 27, 15, 8:52 pm
  #13  
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock View Post
I'm disappointed that 14 hours after option #1 and #2 were mentioned in the other thread, and TB members who posted after the 2 options were brought up were split on which one they preferred, that we suddenly have a motion and now a vote.

I expected TB would want more input on the 2 options before going to a motion, if they even went to one at all. Again, disappointing.

Cheers.
We had an internal straw poll in the private forum, the vast majority were in favor of option 2 so I made the motion. It's also been two months to the day since the idea was first proposed, that's a pretty long time from inception to motion.
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Old Apr 27, 15, 9:16 pm
  #14  
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Originally Posted by Prospero View Post
Oppose.

I have used Uber in many cities spanning three continents. As the service varies widely in different locations, the existing Destinations forums are my go to place for discussion of Uber. It works well, so why change it?

Discussion of Uber and Lyft rarely occurs in isolation - they are simply alternatives to other ground transportation options available in each city they operate in, so splitting Uber discussion away from the alternatives will create duplication and ultimately cause confusion.

There are a myriad of other mobile booking providers offering comparable single ride services as Uber and Lyft but there is no explanation as to why Uber and Lyft should be singled out. Halo, for example is expanding its coverage across European cities. Is it TalkBoard's expectation that Halo related topics continue in the respective Destination forums?

Ten threads started over a 4 year period in TravelBuzz covering generic Uber/Lyft issues does not demonstrate sufficient demand for a dedicated forum.

Finally, inserting a separate ground transportation forum in the Mile&Points section is counter intuitive; it will jar with the existing forum structure.
+1 . I agree with Prospero 100%, therefore I feel no need to further expand on my reasons for opposing this motion.
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Old Apr 27, 15, 9:38 pm
  #15  
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
It's also been two months to the day since the idea was first proposed, that's a pretty long time from inception to motion.
In recent TB terms perhaps though it wasn't always this way.
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