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Voting Over, Motion Passed: Amend the TalkBoard guidelines for timelag

Voting Over, Motion Passed: Amend the TalkBoard guidelines for timelag

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Old Mar 13, 15, 2:19 am   -   Wikipost
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Originally Posted by jason8612 View Post

On January 23, 2015, TalkBoard passed 7-2-0
the following amendments to the TalkBoard Guidelines (new language underlined, struck language to be deleted)
:

C. Voting Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and seconded and all aspects of the Public Notice Procedures in Section D. below have been completed, not sooner than 48 hours later the President shall post a sticky poll thread in the TalkBoard forum calling the question and announcing the vote. The thread shall be titled "Vote: [summary of motion]". In the first post on the sticky poll thread the President shall post the maker and seconder of the motion as well as the voting deadline and then restate the motion that has been made and seconded.

and

D. Public Notice Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and seconded put before TalkBoard for a vote the Vice President/Secretary shall post a new thread in the public TalkBoard Topics forum announcing the vote along with the voting end date as quickly as feasible. Once that thread is posted, the TalkBoard Vice President/Secretary will submit a request to the FlyerTalk Host or representative to create an site-wide announcement of the vote with a link to the discussion/voting thread in the TalkBoard Topics Forum. The Announcement will be available until either voting is completed and a decision is made or the voting period ends.

Votes
Yes: dschobel, Canarsie, jason8612, kokonutz, MSPeconomist, nsx, rwoman[/COLOR]
No: CMK10, dchristiva
Abstain: -
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Old Jan 23, 15, 6:58 am
  #46  
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Originally Posted by lo2e View Post
I'd also be interested in knowing where this perceived "pressure" seems to be coming from - FT membership?
Unlikely as we haven't oppressed TB with a staggering workload which might lead to a perceived need to get through dozens of decisions quickly as TB voted on a grand total of four motions in calendar 2014. Four. No I think it more a case of pressure from within that for whatever reason wasn't there in quite the same way with past TB's.
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Old Jan 23, 15, 7:28 am
  #47  
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Originally Posted by tcook052 View Post
Unlikely as we haven't oppressed TB with a staggering workload which might lead to a perceived need to get through dozens of decisions quickly as TB voted on a grand total of four motions in calendar 2014. Four. No I think it more a case of pressure from within that for whatever reason wasn't there in quite the same way with past TB's.
There is no pressure to vote quickly. None. Certainly not in the public forums and I can guarantee you not in the private forums. It simply does not exist. I'm sorry I cannot show that it doesn't exist privately but my word will have to do. Claiming there's a rush to vote is an invented excuse by some to justify their agenda

Last edited by CMK10; Jan 23, 15 at 9:43 am
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Old Jan 23, 15, 7:37 am
  #48  
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There was no pressure to vote in the 2 years I was on TB...I think those years were 2012-13. In the first year we had a member who threw a hissy fit when term limits passed and stopped participating with the exception of casting a vote at the absolute last minute. Sometimes. Felt like a union member working to contract and I believe led to the practice thst now exists -- announcing when a vote mathematically passes or fails prior to the close of the voting period.

I never believed in governing by opinion polls. Sometimes I wanted feedback from FT members and sometimes I didn't. Representative government (and I hesitate to use that phrase cause it makes TB sound more important than it actually is) works that way. I ran for TB and won a seat. For the two years I held the seat, I followed my conscience when voting. Doesn't mean feedback wasn't important to me in various votes, but that decision to take that feedback was mine alone to make and telling me I have to sit on my vote for even 48 hours is silly to me. It should be up to each TalkBoard member to decide for each vote. Not that I have any say in the matter.
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Old Jan 23, 15, 10:55 am
  #49  
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
...I never believed in governing by opinion polls. Sometimes I wanted feedback from FT members and sometimes I didn't. Representative government (and I hesitate to use that phrase cause it makes TB sound more important than it actually is) works that way. I ran for TB and won a seat. For the two years I held the seat, I followed my conscience when voting. Doesn't mean feedback wasn't important to me in various votes, but that decision to take that feedback was mine alone to make and telling me I have to sit on my vote for even 48 hours is silly to me. It should be up to each TalkBoard member to decide for each vote.
The moon must be full.

I agree 100%.
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Old Jan 23, 15, 11:00 am
  #50  
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Originally Posted by lo2e View Post
I guess I've been oblivious to this (not 100% unusual for me ) unless it's only been in the private TB forum. I'd be curious to know if other TB members feel the same way? I'd also be interested in knowing where this perceived "pressure" seems to be coming from - FT membership? The CD? Other TB members? Other?

I recall what appeared to be TB member(s) dragging a vote out to the very end of the 2 week window for no apparently "reasonable" purpose, but I don't recall any discussions around discouraging a TB member to take their time voting so long as there is just cause to do so (such as cases where a TB member wants more feedback before voting).
It's in the private TB forum from several people, but one TB member in particular stands out for this.
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Old Jan 23, 15, 12:40 pm
  #51  
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Originally Posted by cblaisd View Post
The moon must be full.

I agree 100%.
Even a stopped clock....
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Old Jan 23, 15, 12:50 pm
  #52  
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I kind of want to make a motion real quick before that last tb member votes just so it can proceed under the old rules rather than the new rules!!!
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Old Jan 23, 15, 1:22 pm
  #53  
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
There is no pressure to vote quickly. None. Certainly not in the public forums and I can guarantee you not in the private forums. It simply does not exist. I'm sorry I cannot show that it doesn't exist privately but my word will have to do. Claiming there's a rush to vote is an invented excuse by some to justify their agenda
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
It's in the private TB forum from several people, but one TB member in particular stands out for this.
So, we have one TB member saying there isn't pressure to vote quickly, and another saying there is.

Do we have other current members who are willing to say if there is or isn't?
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Old Jan 23, 15, 1:46 pm
  #54  
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Originally Posted by kipper View Post
So, we have one TB member saying there isn't pressure to vote quickly, and another saying there is.

Do we have other current members who are willing to say if there is or isn't?
I don't perceive any pressure to vote except in cases where the outcome is already known and the issue is either minor or simple.

For example if there's an 8-0 vote, the issue is easy to understand, and there's not a lot of reading needed to learn members' opinions, then I might be nonplussed that the last TalkBoard member didn't vote for several days. I probably wouldn't write anything about it. I would be more puzzled than annoyed. Others might post about it and that might be perceived as pressure.

In general it's best to presume good intentions until you have proof to the contrary. That would make FlyerTalk a better place everywhere it's practiced.
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Old Jan 23, 15, 6:25 pm
  #55  
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Originally Posted by kipper View Post
So, we have one TB member saying there isn't pressure to vote quickly, and another saying there is.

Do we have other current members who are willing to say if there is or isn't?
Sure. I vote when I believe that I have enough information. Usually, that's pretty quick. But I have neither pressured others to vote quickly nor felt such pressure. On the other hand, failing to vote after the outcome has been determined is pointless and silly. Better to just abstain in that situation, if you really can't make up your mind.

Bruce
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Old Jan 23, 15, 7:56 pm
  #56  
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Originally Posted by nsx View Post
I don't perceive any pressure to vote except in cases where the outcome is already known and the issue is either minor or simple

In general it's best to presume good intentions until you have proof to the contrary. That would make FlyerTalk a better place everywhere it's practiced.
Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
Sure. I vote when I believe that I have enough information. Usually, that's pretty quick. But I have neither pressured others to vote quickly nor felt such pressure. On the other hand, failing to vote after the outcome has been determined is pointless and silly. Better to just abstain in that situation, if you really can't make up your mind.

Bruce
I feel vindicated. Especially as I'd bet that I'm the "one member" mentioned up above.
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Old Jan 24, 15, 1:03 am
  #57  
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On January 23, 2015, TalkBoard passed 7-2-0
the following amendments to the TalkBoard Guidelines (new language underlined, struck language to be deleted):

C. Voting Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and seconded and all aspects of the Public Notice Procedures in Section D. below have been completed, not sooner than 48 hours later the President shall post a sticky poll thread in the TalkBoard forum calling the question and announcing the vote. The thread shall be titled "Vote: [summary of motion]". In the first post on the sticky poll thread the President shall post the maker and seconder of the motion as well as the voting deadline and then restate the motion that has been made and seconded.

and

D. Public Notice Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and seconded put before TalkBoard for a vote the Vice President/Secretary shall post a new thread in the public TalkBoard Topics forum announcing the vote along with the voting end date as quickly as feasible. Once that thread is posted, the TalkBoard Vice President/Secretary will submit a request to the FlyerTalk Host or representative to create an site-wide announcement of the vote with a link to the discussion/voting thread in the TalkBoard Topics Forum. The Announcement will be available until either voting is completed and a decision is made or the voting period ends.




Votes
Yes: bdschobel, Canarsie, jason8612, kokonutz, MSPeconomist, nsx, rwoman
No: CMK10, dchristiva
Abstain: -
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Old Jan 24, 15, 2:57 pm
  #58  
 
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Hooray!

Whilst I don't think this measure will make much difference to FT in general it should hopefully avoid any repeat of the MR form debacle.
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Old Jan 25, 15, 6:25 am
  #59  
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A few lines from a post I made in 2004, shortly after being elected to TB for the first time:


Originally Posted by Dovster View Post

"TalkBoard is much different than Congress," I told him. "For one thing, we don't get any pay."

"Then why bother being a member?" Irving asked.

"It's all about power," I said. "TalkBoard has the power not to create forums."

"Can't anybody not create forums?" he wondered.

"Sure," I admitted, "but they can only not create forums unofficially. TalkBoard can officially not create forums."

"And if TalkBoard doesn't officially create a forum than it won't exist?" Irving asked.

"Only if the board owner agrees," I said. "Otherwise, he is free to create the forum which the TalkBoard officially did not create."

"That doesn't sound like a lot of power to me," Irving said.

"Well, that's not all TalkBoard does," I told him. "It also sets guidelines for itself and elects its president. These are very important steps. Otherwise, when members ask for a forum and TalkBoard decides not to create it, it would be doing so in a chaotic fashion."
It's good to see that things haven't changed.
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Old Jan 30, 15, 5:27 pm
  #60  
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Originally Posted by nsx View Post
I don't perceive any pressure to vote except in cases where the outcome is already known and the issue is either minor or simple.

For example if there's an 8-0 vote, the issue is easy to understand, and there's not a lot of reading needed to learn members' opinions, then I might be nonplussed that the last TalkBoard member didn't vote for several days. I probably wouldn't write anything about it. I would be more puzzled than annoyed. Others might post about it and that might be perceived as pressure.

In general it's best to presume good intentions until you have proof to the contrary. That would make FlyerTalk a better place everywhere it's practiced.
You speak as if this were a hypothetical, but I'm fairly certain it's closer to reality more often than you let on.

Also, points for the proper use of "nonplussed."
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