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Suggestions for TalkBoard voting process - announcements and stand-down period

Suggestions for TalkBoard voting process - announcements and stand-down period

 
Old Nov 24, 2014, 3:16 pm
  #1  
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Suggestions for TalkBoard voting process - announcements and stand-down period

There are a couple of good suggestions within the close the recently created Premium Deals forum thread, which I think are worthy of a separate discussion as they are of much wider interest.

Announcing votes

Originally Posted by tom911
But whose responsibility is it to alert the members of any particular forum? I've posted links before when I've seen a topic being discussed in the Talk Board forum that might be of interest to users in an individual forum, and I've seen other members do the same thing when OMNI changes were afoot, alerting members in that forum. I don't think FT has any rule spelling out "who" has to alert the members in a specific forum. In this case, you could have been the member to alert others in the existing thread when you saw the discussion here. There's just nothing in the rules that requires the forum moderators or Talk Board members to bear that responsibility. Any member can take on that task on and post the message. Maybe it's something the new Talk Board would want to create policy on.

Wasn't there a decision a few years ago that all Talk Board motions/votes-in-progress would display as a banner across all the forums of FT, much like the election banner I've seen this week (mine doesn't appear today but I have seen it a few times this week)? Did that banner not appear to alert all members they were considering a motion and voting on a new forum? Wouldn't that be adequate notice if it appeared?

edited to add: Here's the motion the Talk Board passed in 2011 requiring the notification across all forums:
On 16 May 2011, the TalkBoard passed 9-0:

Moved by bhatnasx and seconded by SkiAdcock:
D. Public Notice Procedures
i. Once a motion has been put before TalkBoard for a vote the Vice President/Secretary shall post a new thread in the public TalkBoard Topics forum announcing the vote along with the voting end date as quickly as feasible.

to a revised section 4.D.i.:

D. Public Notice Procedures
i. Once a motion has been put before TalkBoard for a vote the Vice President/Secretary shall post a new thread in the public TalkBoard Topics forum announcing the vote along with the voting end date as quickly as feasible. Once that thread is posted, the TalkBoard Vice President/Secretary will submit a request to the FlyerTalk Host or representative to create an site-wide announcment of the vote with a link to the discussion/voting thread in the TalkBoard Topics Forum. The Announcement will be available until either voting is completed and a decision is made or the voting period ends.
Voting yes: bhatnasx, Cholula, jackal, lucky9876coins, Markie, nsx, SkiAdcock, Spiff, UA_Flyer

Stand-down period before voting commences

Originally Posted by tom911
The Talk Board needs to come up with something better. If a member doesn't regularly follow the Talk Board forum, and the site-wide announcements aren't getting out before the voting concludes, maybe there should be a period of time that you can't vote so members can participate in the discussion. For instance, introduce a motion and require at least 5 days before the voting can commence so members can give feedback.
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 3:18 pm
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From that other thread it seems there isn't clarity on the current process for announcing TalkBoard votes / seeking input. This includes where to announce (site-wide, affected forum(s), other), who makes the announcement (someone on TalkBoard, Community Director, affected forum(s) moderator(s), other).
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 4:15 pm
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Actually there is 're public announcement and weirdly enough you quoted it in your OP when you quoted the guidelines.

're more formal heads up 're discussions, which is different from vote, or a time lag 're site announcement, that's already being discussed in TB.

Cheers
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 5:27 pm
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
Actually there is 're public announcement and weirdly enough you quoted it in your OP when you quoted the guidelines.

're more formal heads up 're discussions, which is different from vote, or a time lag 're site announcement, that's already being discussed in TB.

Cheers
What good is a public announcement if voting has ended before it can be published?
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 6:54 pm
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Here what I posted in the private TB forum yesterday on the matter:

Originally Posted by kokonutz
I've been following /participating in TB since it was created.

Other than the 'bad old days' when the appointed TB operated in total secrecy and lack of transparency, this was the fastet vote I've ever seen take place. Even faster than when Randy would come to the TB and say 'I want to open a new Turkish Airlines forum. Please vote to do so.' @:-)

To <redacted>'s point, in the past TB members took their time before voting for the most part.

So to me this was an outlier situation.

That said, it really ISN'T fair that a vote can be finished before a site-wide announcement that it is taking place is posted, and there is nothing preventing that from happening again.

So I do think it makes sense to add a provision to the TB Guidelines that there be a 'comment period' between when a motion is made and seconded AND a site-wide announcement of that motion is posted and when voting on that motion opens. 72 hours seems like plenty.

I'd make that motion now, but we're in a lame duck situation so think it's more fair to wait until the new TB session begins.
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 7:00 pm
  #6  
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And here is how that motion might look:

The TB recommends that the TB Guidelines be amended thus:

C. Voting Procedures
i. Not less than 72 hours after Once a motion has been made and seconded the President shall post a sticky poll thread in the TalkBoard forum calling the question and announcing the vote. The thread shall be titled "Vote: [summary of motion]". In the first post on the sticky poll thread the President shall post the maker and seconder of the motion as well as the voting deadline and then restate the motion that has been made and seconded.

and

D. Public Notice Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and seconded put before TalkBoard for a vote the Vice President/Secretary shall post a new thread in the public TalkBoard Topics forum announcing the vote along with the voting end date as quickly as feasible. Once that thread is posted, the TalkBoard Vice President/Secretary will submit a request to the FlyerTalk Host or representative to create an site-wide announcment of the vote with a link to the discussion/voting thread in the TalkBoard Topics Forum. The Announcement will be available until either voting is completed and a decision is made or the voting period ends.
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 8:28 am
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Originally Posted by kipper
What good is a public announcement if voting has ended before it can be published?
There were 49 motions/votes while I served on TB. Only 1, the last one, had voting conclude before the sitewide announcement went up. As koko notes, it was an outlier. It is not the norm to have voting conclude before the sitewide announcement takes place. And while it probably won't happen again, TB is taking steps to amend the guidelines to ensure it doesn't & that a more formal heads up in forums before motions are made. So that will take care of it from a logistical point.

Originally Posted by kokonutz
And here is how that motion might look:

The TB recommends that the TB Guidelines be amended thus:

C. Voting Procedures
i. Not less than 72 hours after Once a motion has been made and seconded the President shall post a sticky poll thread in the TalkBoard forum calling the question and announcing the vote. The thread shall be titled "Vote: [summary of motion]". In the first post on the sticky poll thread the President shall post the maker and seconder of the motion as well as the voting deadline and then restate the motion that has been made and seconded.

and

D. Public Notice Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and seconded put before TalkBoard for a vote the Vice President/Secretary shall post a new thread in the public TalkBoard Topics forum announcing the vote along with the voting end date as quickly as feasible. Once that thread is posted, the TalkBoard Vice President/Secretary will submit a request to the FlyerTalk Host or representative to create an site-wide announcment of the vote with a link to the discussion/voting thread in the TalkBoard Topics Forum. The Announcement will be available until either voting is completed and a decision is made or the voting period ends.
koko, I was going to start a thread in the private TB forum to get the discussion going re: both time lag on sitewide announcement as well as the formal heads up in forums where an action is being discussed. BTW - I know where you're headed with the above, but the wording doesn't get you where you want to be. I can't post your post, so when I create the 2 threads, perhaps you'd be kind enough to post the above in the thread created in the private forum.

These 2 items, plus overseeing the new Prez/VP elections will be my last actions as lame duck Prez.

Cheers.
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 8:52 am
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock

koko, I was going to start a thread in the private TB forum to get the discussion going re: both time lag on sitewide announcement as well as the formal heads up in forums where an action is being discussed. BTW - I know where you're headed with the above, but the wording doesn't get you where you want to be. I can't post your post, so when I create the 2 threads, perhaps you'd be kind enough to post the above in the thread created in the private forum.

These 2 items, plus overseeing the new Prez/VP elections will be my last actions as lame duck Prez.

Cheers.
You know me, I prefer to do this stuff in public. But sure.
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 9:56 am
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
There were 49 motions/votes while I served on TB. Only 1, the last one, had voting conclude before the sitewide announcement went up. As koko notes, it was an outlier. It is not the norm to have voting conclude before the sitewide announcement takes place.
I'm less sure this was a one-off as I recall another recent snap decision made in this case with only 24 hours between motion and motion passage. Was there time in that case to have posted a site-wide announcement?
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 10:27 am
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Originally Posted by tcook052
I'm less sure this was a one-off as I recall another recent snap decision made in this case with only 24 hours between motion and motion passage. Was there time in that case to have posted a site-wide announcement?
I do believe the public announcement was made, but I don't have access to the CommunityDirector's public announcements archive to confirm. It should be noted that the voting on that motion actually went 13 days, even though the formal pass/won't pass announcement was made once it was known per the TB guidelines.

As you can see from koko's post & mine, adding a time lag is something that TB is going to vote on/implement so that the vote closing before the sitewide announcement appears doesn't happen moving forward.

Cheers.
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 10:37 am
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Originally Posted by kokonutz
And here is how that motion might look:

The TB recommends that the TB Guidelines be amended thus:

C. Voting Procedures
i. Not less than 72 hours after Once a motion has been made and seconded the President shall post a sticky poll thread in the TalkBoard forum calling the question and announcing the vote. The thread shall be titled "Vote: [summary of motion]". In the first post on the sticky poll thread the President shall post the maker and seconder of the motion as well as the voting deadline and then restate the motion that has been made and seconded.

and

D. Public Notice Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and seconded put before TalkBoard for a vote the Vice President/Secretary shall post a new thread in the public TalkBoard Topics forum announcing the vote along with the voting end date as quickly as feasible. Once that thread is posted, the TalkBoard Vice President/Secretary will submit a request to the FlyerTalk Host or representative to create an site-wide announcment of the vote with a link to the discussion/voting thread in the TalkBoard Topics Forum. The Announcement will be available until either voting is completed and a decision is made or the voting period ends.
I'd prefer the TalkBoard vote to explicitly commence a minimum time after the public announcement (being sitewide and/or in the affected forum as opposed to merely in the public TalkBoard Topics forum) has been made, so as to ensure an opportunity for non-TalkBoard Flyer Talk members to discuss.
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 10:53 am
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
There were 49 motions/votes while I served on TB. Only 1, the last one, had voting conclude before the sitewide announcement went up. As koko notes, it was an outlier. It is not the norm to have voting conclude before the sitewide announcement takes place. And while it probably won't happen again, TB is taking steps to amend the guidelines to ensure it doesn't & that a more formal heads up in forums before motions are made. So that will take care of it from a logistical point.

Cheers.
Just to clarify for the record: the Premium Fare Deals vote didn't conclude in seventeen hours but rather about six days. The seventeen hour time line counts from the time that the motion was formally seconded and voting was opened until it was announced by the TB VP that the motion received six positive votes, thereby guaranteeing that it would pass. Also for the record, the Premium Fare Deals forum wasn't created by the CD until everyone on TB had voted, so the MR mods had approximately six days notice that there would be a new sub forum on their turf.

There could have been a community wide announcement posted between the times that the sixth and ninth TB votes occurred, but it would have been pointless as the outcome of the vote was already determined and announced publicly. AFAIK there's no way at that point to stop/postpone conclusion of voting on the motion or to amend the motion based on comments from FT members, although I believe that a minor friendly amendment would be a possibility if the TB members who made and seconded the motion approve.

Last edited by MSPeconomist; Nov 25, 2014 at 11:00 am
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 10:57 am
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
I do believe the public announcement was made, but I don't have access to the CommunityDirector's public announcements archive to confirm.
Let's imagine it was made it still would've left members a few scant hours at most to offer their opinions on the matter which I'm glad TB has finally agreed is simply not enough and is seeking to avoid these snap ballots in future.
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 11:10 am
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Originally Posted by tcook052
Let's imagine it was made it still would've left members a few scant hours at most to offer their opinions on the matter which I'm glad TB has finally agreed is simply not enough and is seeking to avoid these snap ballots in future.
Some of us have been arguing almost all year on TB against the rush to vote mentality of some TB members this year. I hinted at something similar in my answer to at least one of the talk the vote questions, but confidentiality inhibits me from saying much more.

Similarly, while the election was happening, I felt restricted about participating very much in the threads (such as happy/sad, eliminate, suggestions for posting rules) discussing the new Premium Deals sub forum because I feared that any comments could seem like campaigning.
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 11:12 am
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Originally Posted by kokonutz
And here is how that motion might look:

The TB recommends that the TB Guidelines be amended thus:

C. Voting Procedures
i. Not less than 72 hours after Once a motion has been made and seconded the President shall post a sticky poll thread in the TalkBoard forum calling the question and announcing the vote. The thread shall be titled "Vote: [summary of motion]". In the first post on the sticky poll thread the President shall post the maker and seconder of the motion as well as the voting deadline and then restate the motion that has been made and seconded.

and

D. Public Notice Procedures
i. Once a motion has been made and seconded put before TalkBoard for a vote the Vice President/Secretary shall post a new thread in the public TalkBoard Topics forum announcing the vote along with the voting end date as quickly as feasible. Once that thread is posted, the TalkBoard Vice President/Secretary will submit a request to the FlyerTalk Host or representative to create an site-wide announcment of the vote with a link to the discussion/voting thread in the TalkBoard Topics Forum. The Announcement will be available until either voting is completed and a decision is made or the voting period ends.
That still doesn't address the hot issues the last motion ran into when voting concluded before interested members could voice their opinions and be properly heard publicly.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer
I'd prefer the TalkBoard vote to explicitly commence a minimum time after the public announcement (being sitewide and/or in the affected forum as opposed to merely in the public TalkBoard Topics forum) has been made, so as to ensure an opportunity for non-TalkBoard Flyer Talk members to discuss.
+10000

I would even go further to mandate a say 5-day window (after the sitewide public announcement is made) before any voting takes place.
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