"Informative" button options for reader feedback
 

As most of you know, the focus of my recent campaign for TalkBoard was promotion of some sort of "Like" button feature on FlyerTalk. This thread is intended to gather any and all ideas so that we overlook nothing and settle on the most promising of many alternatives.

I would like to discuss our wish list first, waiting a while to bring in any implementation constraints. As I've written before, Internet Brands has impressed me with their ability to implement features we want at or above the level of functionality we hoped for. So let's play sky's the limit for now.

As my fellow TalkBoard member CMK10 and I discussed on the earlier Like button thread, CMK10 is concerned that FT members could abuse a feedback button to inappropriately up-vote snarky posts. If that became the predominant use of the feedback button, any feedback numbers would become useless to readers other than these game-players. This soft of abuse did happen before on FlyerTalk many years ago with standard like/dislike voting, so the concern is valid.

My current favorite version of this proposal is a feedback button labeled "Informative", whereby readers can up-vote a post they find particularly helpful. I can think of several issues we need to discuss before settling on a recommendation and having a vote of TalkBoard on it:

1. Should there be a negative feedback button? (My opinion: History shows that abuse of such a button is too big a risk.)

2. Is there a better name than "Informative" button? "Helpful"? "Useful"? "Valuable"? "Thanks"?

3. Should we consider any other positive feedback buttons, such as "Funny"? (My opinion: Allowing this feedback could feed snark wars. OTOH, it reduces the risk that "Informative" votes will be abused to reward snark.)

4. Should the vote totals be visible to all or only to the poster? (My opinion: That's crucial to rewarding the poster.)

5. Should the handles of voters be visible to all? Visible only to moderators? Visible only to the voter? Visible to nobody? (My opinion: Start with visible to all and change it if any problems arise.)

6. Should readers be required to be logged in before the feedback button is enabled? (My opinion: I doubt that people will create an FT login just so they can vote. Having newbies be able to vote as Anonymous will build engagement so they may eventually decide to register and post.)

7. In order to reduce the risk of a disaster, we are likely recommend trying out this feature in selected forums before rolling it out site-wide. What forums would you choose for a trial? (My opinion: The acid test would be OMNI/PR, but an Informative button doesn't really belong there at all. So I'm thinking the prime targets are Information Desk, MilesBuzz, and TravelBuzz. Starting in a quiet forum won't reveal any problems, so that would be kind of pointless. So I'd say we should start in just one of the prime targets, like TravelBuzz or maybe Trip Reports.)


Reader feedback is a (minor) structural change to FlyerTalk which will have some effect on moderation workload. I think it's perfectly fine to discuss those issues in general terms here. I welcome the perspective of both non-moderators and moderators.

One positive change for both moderators and readers will be reduction of "+1" posts that mostly clutter FT's forums. Another will be (I hope) improved average quality of posts. The latter is the reason I am promoting this change.


Please let your TalkBoard know your opinions and preferences on the issues I listed, along with any other perspectives you have. Post here, early and often. We want to get this as right as possible the first time.

I don't think there should be any sort of button. Too many of us visit FT on mobile devices due to travel. Also, some of us have satellite internet, and we have daily or monthly limits on downloads, and graphics count towards that.

However, if TB is bound and determined to implement something, here are my answers:

1. No
2. Thanks
3. No
4. Only poster
5. Visible to none--it's yet more "clutter"
6. Yes--otherwise, you may have people who will stay logged out to "vote" anonymously
7. Information Desk

The +1 posts don't bother me. I highly doubt you are going to see the "quality" of posts improve due to something like this, nor will it affect the level of snark that permeates some forums. If anything, it will turn things into a popularity contest.

The “jury is still out” with me on this topic, as I have no preference either way...

...so I am reading what FlyerTalk members think about this proposal.

We are not "bound and determined" to do anything in this regard. We're trying to gather input on the pros and cons of the idea. Many of us are completely undecided right now.

Bruce

Per the OP's post, they at least campaigned on it.

As I said on the other thread, I post on another forum that has a full range of these buttons and it works great - but that forum is rather less turbulent than FT. So my opinion is/are:

1. Should there be a negative feedback button? No - I agree that it will be misused

2. Is there a better name than "Informative" button? "Helpful"? "Useful"? "Valuable"? "Thanks"? Informative is a good bet. The aforementioned other forum has informative/useful. It also has a thanks button

3. Should we consider any other positive feedback buttons, such as "Funny"?
Yes - I'd suggest informative, thanks, and a good skills button for nice pics etc, maybe a sympathy button too?

4. Should the vote totals be visible to all or only to the poster? Visible to all

5. Should the handles of voters be visible to all? Visible only to moderators? Visible only to the voter? Visible to nobody? Visible to all - that way it becomes clear who is abusing it

6. Should readers be required to be logged in before the feedback button is enabled?
Yes

7. In order to reduce the risk of a disaster, we are likely recommend trying out this feature in selected forums before rolling it out site-wide. What forums would you choose for a trial? Good idea - maybe start in destination forums and trip reports

websites I've used today that offer feEdback
 

TB Topics Forum Moderator hat OFF (though my moderator experience does tinge my suggestions).

Sites I've used today that include feedback:

Amazon offers:

The comments can be useful, but can be politicized - as can be the "No" option. And I notice the "Comments" often go off-topic and sometimes get personal.


Trip Advisor offers:

There's no "No"; you choose to reply affirmatively or move. Simple, effective, no opportunity for snark abuse or personalization.


WebMD offers:

Good place for RBP, "No" gives power to disruptive folks if it works; on WebMD it apparently has no purpose other to allow venting, because it has NO effect on "Was this review helpful?" nor the count which apparently only reports "Yes" votes, not bad!

The post report is quite limited "Report" an abusive or offensive post without comment possibility or "Cancel", inadequate, IMO.

None of these sites allow one to see who posted an affirmative or negative vote from what I've seen.

I personally prefer "Was this post helpful?" with the number who clicked on "Yes". Not much chance for abuse or deviltry ;) here, but it can help members find the nuggets of gold among the sands of discussion and many posts.

I like simplicity, and programming in who voted, comments, etc. fails, IMO, the "KISS" principle.

Good idea to trial in one forum or more, such as product reviews like Travel Products or reports such as Trip Reports, or perhaps a busier destination forum. And like all functions other than reading FT, only available to logged in members.

I don't believe we should have minimum criteria (e.g. post or tenure) for responses if we use a simple "Was this post helpful?"

I know I was mentioned in the OP's post, but I can attest to us not being "bound and determined" to do so as well, especially as right now I am against the implementation of any such button.

I do like Kipper's argument though, "Was This Post Helpful?" is something I hadn't really thought much about so I'll keep an open mind on it.

In another forum I'm active in you can rate posts in a variety of ways, over there I personally like "useful" and "thanks" (the former being a mini spanner and the latter just a capital "T" symbol).

The plug-in allows members to see who "rated" the post.

http://imageshack.com/a/img908/9936/c8MSjH.png

Personally, any negative comments (as in thumps down etc) would not be helpful on FT.

While I'm not sold on the whole concept if it has to be I'd favor something like this for the reasons JDiver summarized.

I apologize for any implication that other TalkBoard members were on board with the rough outline I posted on TalkBoard Topics. I wrote that post under time pressure and I didn't consider the possibility that readers might infer that we had counted votes or anything like that.

As I wrote in my campaign statement, I am well aware that getting 6 votes for anything will be quite a challenge. That's exactly why I want to find the best proposal before asking anyone to support it.

I say no to any type of preference button ...

Back when I was on TB (oh wait, that was only a few days ago :D)...

My understanding from IB is that something like this would require a major change to the site. They didn't say they couldn't do it, just how many FTers are actually clamoring for it, and if there are many, then TB & CD signing off to push it up in terms of priority.

If you look at the other thread re: the Like button, FTers were approximately 50/50 on yes they wanted it/no they didn't. I'm not sure an even split is enough to ask IB to make this a top priority. I know it is for nsx ;), but is it for everyone else?

Speaking as a former TBer & as a current FTer, personally I'd rather see them devote resources to coming up with a good mobile app.

Cheers.

Without some really compelling rationale why this is necessary (and I haven't seen any yet), I agree with goalie.

Agree with you and Goalie.

I've been using my phone to read FT more and more, and I agree! A good mobile app is definitely needed. :D

1: No

2: Helpful

3: Hmm.. if more than one, very few.. How about "Useful", "Funny", "Very Flyertalk"


4: No.

5: Visible only to mods


6: Yes.. Only logged in users

7: trip reports is the prime target.. would then target "Buzz"

Extra points: Make it searchable.. So I can search for most "liked" posts on blah..

I applaud this move.. Very web2.0.. I have often wanted to high 5 a poster for a great post..

I personally would say no to any type of like, helpful, not helpful and etc button but if there is going to be a "like", "helpful" or other button du jour, I would say no to any type of "negative" (i.e. not helpful) button as all that will do is tick off the poster who made the comment and if a post is truly not helpful and along the lines where it needs to be moderated, then that's what the Report Bad Post button is for.

That will cause serious drama + extra work for mods. No value in that here.

Definitely disagree. There's crappy content, wrong answers or people that reply before clearly reading the post. Many, many valid reasons to say the post wasn't useful. In some forums, you use the balance of +/- votes to determine whether or not the content even appears in the viewing stream. That's likely far too complex for IB to even consider though.

Why not use the current "rate thread" system?

If implemented properly, valuable info could be gained for FT as well. You can see how unhelpful some of your "evangelists" really are, and what an asset other members are.

Voting options spawn conspiracy theories re: people "gaming the system" to always have their content upvoted + content from certain others downvoted. Good luck with that.

I think the Like Button is enough of a worrisome invitation to make FT even more of a popularity contest than it is. But an unhelpful button I think would be quickly abused by those with axes to grind. I'm absolutely not in favor of that idea.

As others have mentioned, we already have a "report bad post" button. That's good enough for me.

Bruce

Personally, I'd rather see someone reply to misinformation with correct information (and ideally cite the source, but I know that's not always possible) instead of just giving a rating on an incorrect post. Corrected information is way more helpful to me than just saying a post is wrong without saying what is right.

This whole "Like" or whatever system just strikes me as a solution in search of a problem and promotes laziness in my opinion. While I don't read every single forum on FT, I would hope that there aren't posters that are purposely posting incorrect information, but I would certainly report to a mod if I saw such activity happening.

Agreed ^ and let's say for whatever reason, a member doesn't want to have their posts liked or "helpfulled"-do they have an option/choice to turn this feature off? I also think that this will be come more of a "status thing" and simply put, what's the difference between a member posting something like "thank you, this was just what I was looking for" vs clicking a like/helpful button? Personally, if it was me, I'd like to see someone post a thank you than see how many likes/helpfuls I rec'd

Originally Posted by bdschobel

As others have mentioned, we already have a "report bad post" button.

That's good enough for me.

Bruce


Agree, folks interested in such things, can link all their pals to a Facebook account and like each other all they wish then and share photos of their pets and latest hairdos, and what they had for dinner last night. :cool:

We already have a "Friends" thingy in each FT profile, that I turned off on Day #1 that it was announced many years back. Again those who want FT to be Mini Facebook for some odd reason, can use that function if they wish. It seems to me few use that anyway, so that is a relevant pointer to this discussion.

A reminder to those not here as long as some of us old guard, this "Like" idea was tried before, and was an abject failure here on FT. :mad:

Some VERY senior members then, (and some of who still are now in VERY senior roles) abused the system in a concerted and malicious and calculated manner, and Randy needed to bang a lot of heads, issue all sorts of threats to them to play nice, wasted a lot of his time doing so, and pulled the plug on the entire "Reputation" mess.

The present system has worked perfectly well for 16 years, and like many other posters above, cannot see ANY valid reason to change.

One reason FT stays strong and relevant is that it has avoided many faddy things such as this. @:-)

Even user Avatars, found on near all Bulletin Boards, are not deemed necessary by members and TB, and a widened "Titles" selection was voted down only this year by TB, so this idea certainly should join that.

Flyertalk always was and is about travel and points, and is not a social media sideshow. ;)

Glen

I never thought I'd say this, but I find myself in agreement with everything oz just said :eek:

Must be Groundhog day. :D

Same here.

Makes sense.