Rules against campaigning prevent TalkBoard from being relevant to most users
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,805
OP's point is when there is discussion in a forum about an issue. people may know that TB does stuff. and that there is an election. but people may not know that there is an election that coincides with the issue/discussion, and that certain candidates have to be elected in order to get the decision they would prefer.
linking a debate thread in a non-TB thread is a great idea, not sure if its ever been done?
linking a debate thread in a non-TB thread is a great idea, not sure if its ever been done?
#17
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,332
IIRC last year most or all of the campaign questions that were submitted by FT members and/or TB candidates were used by the Community Director and became threads in the 2012 Elections forum.
If someone wants candidates to state and explain their views, even on past votes, one should formulate a question to submit about the issue. The procedure to do this will be announced when the election is announced by the Community Director. Most candidates participate in most of the resulting election threads, but some have found the lack of back and forth comments and the fact that there no possibility of asking follow-up questions to hamper active debate on certain issues. OTOH, some candidates obviously spend a considerable amount of time answering the questions very thoughtfully, even if it sometimes seems like the candidates mostly agree with each other.
If someone wants candidates to state and explain their views, even on past votes, one should formulate a question to submit about the issue. The procedure to do this will be announced when the election is announced by the Community Director. Most candidates participate in most of the resulting election threads, but some have found the lack of back and forth comments and the fact that there no possibility of asking follow-up questions to hamper active debate on certain issues. OTOH, some candidates obviously spend a considerable amount of time answering the questions very thoughtfully, even if it sometimes seems like the candidates mostly agree with each other.
#18
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,332
OP's point is when there is discussion in a forum about an issue. people may know that TB does stuff. and that there is an election. but people may not know that there is an election that coincides with the issue/discussion, and that certain candidates have to be elected in order to get the decision they would prefer.
linking a debate thread in an aforementioned thread is a great idea, not sure if its ever been done.
linking a debate thread in an aforementioned thread is a great idea, not sure if its ever been done.
#20
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 50,979
OP's point is when there is discussion in a forum about an issue. people may know that TB does stuff. and that there is an election. but people may not know that there is an election that coincides with the issue/discussion, and that certain candidates have to be elected in order to get the decision they would prefer.
linking a debate thread in a non-TB thread is a great idea, not sure if its ever been done?
linking a debate thread in a non-TB thread is a great idea, not sure if its ever been done?
Perhaps linking the debate thread could be handled fairly quickly by Carol.
#21
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 50,979
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,805
kipper, "not outside TB" referring to no campaigning
point is TB after the election - not everyone retires, and there are multiple candidates.
At least last year, TB avoided having votes during the lame duck period, just before new TB members were seated. However, I don't remember any hot issues where having new TB members vote rather than those who were retiring from TB would seem to have given us a different result.
#23
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,417
The rational part of me wants to address the member engagement disconnect by loosening the election rules a fraction to allow, for example, one thread per forum maximum to discuss forum specific topics as they relate to past or pending TB votes. That of course still won't prevent those who aren't interested from ignoring even that sticky.
FWIW I wouldn't want to see us relax the electioneering/campaigning rules so much that it disrupts the individual forum for months on end though that's merely MHO.
FWIW I wouldn't want to see us relax the electioneering/campaigning rules so much that it disrupts the individual forum for months on end though that's merely MHO.
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,805
The rational part of me wants to address the member engagement disconnect by loosening the election rules a fraction to allow, for example, one thread per forum maximum to discuss forum specific topics as they relate to past or pending TB votes. That of course still won't prevent those who aren't interested from ignoring even that sticky.
FWIW I wouldn't want to see us relax the electioneering/campaigning rules so much that it disrupts the individual forum for months on end though that's merely MHO.
FWIW I wouldn't want to see us relax the electioneering/campaigning rules so much that it disrupts the individual forum for months on end though that's merely MHO.
#25
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 50,979
The problem with that is that unless all candidates know about the thread, one or two may "campaign" in it, while the others never see it, and it would give them an unfair advantage.
#26
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in PALMYRA, PA, USA
Posts: 58,512
It seems to me that the inability to do issue advocacy during the election 'season' is a huge barrier to making TalkBoard relevant and meaningful to people who (like Sharon said) only visit the hotel or airline or MR Deals forum. It's purposely trying to make TalkBoard a popularity contest rather than a real election with debate of issues.
a) I need the validation, and
2) There is no way I would ever win if we applied metrics like fulfilling our manifestos.
Originally Posted by Jenbel
I actually think that TB has become not relevant to FT (and that's why the majority of FTers are not interested in it). It was an interesting experiment, but times have changed. We have a Community Director who is able to make decisions now. Close TB and move on.
That's was a good one.
But I do think that TB serves as a useful focus group for the CD. Especially when it is not filled with simpering and sycophantic yes-people.
#27
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,417
Then allow the threads within the individual forum as they relate to TB specific matters, not general campaigning, and inform all candidates of the existence of each thread and let each one decide whether they wish to join the thread or not. Post a thread list with links within the TB Election forum, for example, so that everything is open and as fair as possible.
#28
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,007
1. But apparently there are rules about no discussion of the election in 'regular' threads. Members who tried to bump threads related to the issue and mention there was currently an election on that topic were scolded for campaigning, and IIRC, the thread was locked. This happens to be an issue I was very passionate about, so I PM'd a bunch of the posters on the thread that had expressed support for my views, and I was reprimanded/reported for that by a moderator.
2. The first step to making TB relevant to users is to be able to point out to users that there is a TB, and that the TB has purview over the issue they care about, and there is currently an election in which some candidates share their views. But there is literally no way to do that, as far as I could tell.
If candidates are truly interested in an even playing field/bringing attention to issues & not just campaigning for themselves, they can bump the thread once & say 'hey there's an election going on, there are a variety of candidates with a variety of views, & if this issue (or others) is important to you, you might want to head over to TB to read the candidates bio/platforms, and answers to questions or raise a question that the CommunityDirector can ask.' Heck, FTers & TB members have been known to do that when issues come up for discussion on motions and/or when voting is underway & not necessarily tied into election time.
2. Guess I question whether 'relevant' to FTers is the correct word. TB does serve a purpose to FT, but again most FTers care more about their individual programs than the admin of a bulletin board. I belong to several BB & really the behind-the-scenes isn't of interest to me most of the time, unless the admin part gets so screwed up it truly adversely impacts my experience of the bulletin board. Overall I think FT runs well. Obviously there's always room for tweaking & improvement. Some of it FTers will agree on & some they won't. But regarding making TB more visible to FT during elections (and non-elections), the CommunityDirector does as much as possible.
I ignored the election for homecoming queen when I was in high school because it was irrelevant to me, (even though there were countless signs and people canvassing the halls, etc) and I ignored TalkBoard elections for several years because I had no idea why I should care.
OP's point was - TB and members (can be allowed) to post their opinion, but running-for-TB (can be not allowed)
OP is not talking about informing people about the election, voting, etc
OP is saying there are election issues that may not be known to be election issues outside TB forum
OP is not talking about informing people about the election, voting, etc
OP is saying there are election issues that may not be known to be election issues outside TB forum
"If candidates are truly interested in an even playing field/bringing attention to issues & not just campaigning for themselves, they can bump the thread once & say 'hey there's an election going on, there are a variety of candidates with a variety of views, & if this issue (or others) is important to you, you might want to head over to TB to read the candidates bio/platforms, and answers to questions or raise a question that the CommunityDirector can ask."
I think TB still holds a purpose as it is a place where FTers can go to suggest new forums & other items for the betterment of FT, where other FTers can weigh in, & TB members can consider the pros/cons/do research & bring up points that may or may not have occurred to other FTers, other TB members or the CommunityDirector, & then provide that input, in the private and public forum, to the CommunityDirector. Given the CD has multiple responsibilities, it helps to have a board that can synthesize & provide input.
AFAIK there's some precedent for similar threads in various fora informing members that TB is considering a proposal that will affect the forum. Also AFAIK sometimes these announcements are started by the member(s) advocating the proposal, sometimes even leading to a discussion in the forum that will potentially be affected, and sometimes someone from TB, such as the TB President, posts about the issue and potential proposal in the substantive forum.
1. I look at TalkBoard as a way to make suggestions to IB and to serve as a check and balance against unilateral Community Director decisions without any input from the community.
2. If one would like to know where those running stand, one can submit a question to the Community Director to be asked of the candidates. IIRC, in prior years, candidates were asked questions where they stood on current TB motions and even items of note that had not yet reached motion stage.
2. Agree.
At least last year, TB avoided having votes during the lame duck period, just before new TB members were seated. However, I don't remember any hot issues where having new TB members vote rather than those who were retiring from TB would seem to have given us a different result. Perhaps someone with more detailed knowledge of TB history can correct this impression and/or point out what the convention was in earlier years.
Cheers.
Last edited by SkiAdcock; Sep 24, 2013 at 12:51 pm
#29
Moderator Hilton Honors, Travel News, West, The Suggestion Box, Smoking Lounge & DiningBuzz
Join Date: Jun 2000
Programs: Honors Diamond, Hertz Presidents Circle, National Exec Elite
Posts: 35,995
Most of the TB folks are honorable, sincere folks, but there is nothing like this on any other informational bulletin board that I'm aware of and the sturm und drang, other agendas by some, etc., etc. just don't add much to the purpose of FlyerTalk being the premier source for travel information about points and miles.
I maintained to FlyerTalk's former owner and I maintain to the CD that if they want input on something, they can ask folks whom they trust.
If you look at best practices for the most successful IBBs there is nothing like a "TalkBoard" among those practices.
They all do have something in common that FlyerTalk mostly has (although not completely adequately imo) but that that would take this thread in another direction....
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,805
the point is not election itself but that election can overlap with a current issue, and people posting about the issue may not know that.
but i think a lot of this can get into moderation, and
suggests to me that this is more complicated than other TB guidelines (re changes)
re TB - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ech-brand.html
but i think a lot of this can get into moderation, and
Passed...recommend the following suggestions to [Community Director]
re TB - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ech-brand.html