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Rules against campaigning prevent TalkBoard from being relevant to most users

Rules against campaigning prevent TalkBoard from being relevant to most users

 
Old Sep 24, 2013, 11:34 am
  #16  
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OP's point is when there is discussion in a forum about an issue. people may know that TB does stuff. and that there is an election. but people may not know that there is an election that coincides with the issue/discussion, and that certain candidates have to be elected in order to get the decision they would prefer.

Originally Posted by kipper
add it to the debate forum

campaigning for TalkBoard can answer the question in [debate thread]

link in that [discussion] thread to the debate thread
linking a debate thread in a non-TB thread is a great idea, not sure if its ever been done?
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 11:35 am
  #17  
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IIRC last year most or all of the campaign questions that were submitted by FT members and/or TB candidates were used by the Community Director and became threads in the 2012 Elections forum.

If someone wants candidates to state and explain their views, even on past votes, one should formulate a question to submit about the issue. The procedure to do this will be announced when the election is announced by the Community Director. Most candidates participate in most of the resulting election threads, but some have found the lack of back and forth comments and the fact that there no possibility of asking follow-up questions to hamper active debate on certain issues. OTOH, some candidates obviously spend a considerable amount of time answering the questions very thoughtfully, even if it sometimes seems like the candidates mostly agree with each other.
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 11:39 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
OP's point is when there is discussion in a forum about an issue. people may know that TB does stuff. and that there is an election. but people may not know that there is an election that coincides with the issue/discussion, and that certain candidates have to be elected in order to get the decision they would prefer.



linking a debate thread in an aforementioned thread is a great idea, not sure if its ever been done.
At least last year, TB avoided having votes during the lame duck period, just before new TB members were seated. However, I don't remember any hot issues where having new TB members vote rather than those who were retiring from TB would seem to have given us a different result. Perhaps someone with more detailed knowledge of TB history can correct this impression and/or point out what the convention was in earlier years.
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 11:41 am
  #19  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
lack of back and forth comments and the fact that there no possibility of asking follow-up questions to hamper active debate on certain issues
which is still possible in TB threads, but not outside TB
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 11:41 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
OP's point is when there is discussion in a forum about an issue. people may know that TB does stuff. and that there is an election. but people may not know that there is an election that coincides with the issue/discussion, and that certain candidates have to be elected in order to get the decision they would prefer.

linking a debate thread in a non-TB thread is a great idea, not sure if its ever been done?
That's where a post saying, "TB elections will be held soon. You might want to explore the options for candidates," is simple, not campaigning, and could help.

Perhaps linking the debate thread could be handled fairly quickly by Carol.
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 11:42 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
which is still possible in TB threads, but not outside TB
Has Carol said that follow-up questions cannot be asked?
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 11:44 am
  #22  
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kipper, "not outside TB" referring to no campaigning

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
At least last year, TB avoided having votes during the lame duck period, just before new TB members were seated. However, I don't remember any hot issues where having new TB members vote rather than those who were retiring from TB would seem to have given us a different result.
point is TB after the election - not everyone retires, and there are multiple candidates.
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 11:48 am
  #23  
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The rational part of me wants to address the member engagement disconnect by loosening the election rules a fraction to allow, for example, one thread per forum maximum to discuss forum specific topics as they relate to past or pending TB votes. That of course still won't prevent those who aren't interested from ignoring even that sticky.

FWIW I wouldn't want to see us relax the electioneering/campaigning rules so much that it disrupts the individual forum for months on end though that's merely MHO.
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 11:53 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by tcook052
The rational part of me wants to address the member engagement disconnect by loosening the election rules a fraction to allow, for example, one thread per forum maximum to discuss forum specific topics as they relate to past or pending TB votes. That of course still won't prevent those who aren't interested from ignoring even that sticky.

FWIW I wouldn't want to see us relax the electioneering/campaigning rules so much that it disrupts the individual forum for months on end though that's merely MHO.
one example - if a moderator allows a thread discussing an issue, then the electioneering rule either applies differently or doesnt apply
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 12:02 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
one example - if a moderator allows a thread discussing an issue, then the electioneering rule either applies differently or doesnt apply
The problem with that is that unless all candidates know about the thread, one or two may "campaign" in it, while the others never see it, and it would give them an unfair advantage.
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 12:05 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by janetdoe
It seems to me that the inability to do issue advocacy during the election 'season' is a huge barrier to making TalkBoard relevant and meaningful to people who (like Sharon said) only visit the hotel or airline or MR Deals forum. It's purposely trying to make TalkBoard a popularity contest rather than a real election with debate of issues.
But I like it that the elections are a popularity contest.

a) I need the validation, and

2) There is no way I would ever win if we applied metrics like fulfilling our manifestos.

Originally Posted by Jenbel
I actually think that TB has become not relevant to FT (and that's why the majority of FTers are not interested in it). It was an interesting experiment, but times have changed. We have a Community Director who is able to make decisions now. Close TB and move on.
Zing!

That's was a good one.

But I do think that TB serves as a useful focus group for the CD. Especially when it is not filled with simpering and sycophantic yes-people.
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 12:24 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by kipper
The problem with that is that unless all candidates know about the thread, one or two may "campaign" in it, while the others never see it, and it would give them an unfair advantage.
Then allow the threads within the individual forum as they relate to TB specific matters, not general campaigning, and inform all candidates of the existence of each thread and let each one decide whether they wish to join the thread or not. Post a thread list with links within the TB Election forum, for example, so that everything is open and as fair as possible.
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 12:40 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by janetdoe

1. But apparently there are rules about no discussion of the election in 'regular' threads. Members who tried to bump threads related to the issue and mention there was currently an election on that topic were scolded for campaigning, and IIRC, the thread was locked. This happens to be an issue I was very passionate about, so I PM'd a bunch of the posters on the thread that had expressed support for my views, and I was reprimanded/reported for that by a moderator.

2. The first step to making TB relevant to users is to be able to point out to users that there is a TB, and that the TB has purview over the issue they care about, and there is currently an election in which some candidates share their views. But there is literally no way to do that, as far as I could tell.
1. There isn't a rule that regular FTers/TB candidates can't participate or bump threads re: issues. However, if a TB candidate deliberately bumps threads &/or PMs folk to push their point of view & keeps mentioning they're running for TB in the post/PMs FTers (again, this is generic & not aimed at you) or gets others to do so on their behalf, then it does start to fall into the campaigning side of things.

If candidates are truly interested in an even playing field/bringing attention to issues & not just campaigning for themselves, they can bump the thread once & say 'hey there's an election going on, there are a variety of candidates with a variety of views, & if this issue (or others) is important to you, you might want to head over to TB to read the candidates bio/platforms, and answers to questions or raise a question that the CommunityDirector can ask.' Heck, FTers & TB members have been known to do that when issues come up for discussion on motions and/or when voting is underway & not necessarily tied into election time.

2. Guess I question whether 'relevant' to FTers is the correct word. TB does serve a purpose to FT, but again most FTers care more about their individual programs than the admin of a bulletin board. I belong to several BB & really the behind-the-scenes isn't of interest to me most of the time, unless the admin part gets so screwed up it truly adversely impacts my experience of the bulletin board. Overall I think FT runs well. Obviously there's always room for tweaking & improvement. Some of it FTers will agree on & some they won't. But regarding making TB more visible to FT during elections (and non-elections), the CommunityDirector does as much as possible.

Originally Posted by janetdoe
I ignored the election for homecoming queen when I was in high school because it was irrelevant to me, (even though there were countless signs and people canvassing the halls, etc) and I ignored TalkBoard elections for several years because I had no idea why I should care.
And yet others paid attention to the homecoming queen election because it was of relevance to them. Just because you think something is irrelevant (whether it be homecoming or TB) doesn't mean others feel the same. When call for candidates or elections are announced, the function of TB is also highlighted, which would provide info on why they should care.

Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
OP's point was - TB and members (can be allowed) to post their opinion, but running-for-TB (can be not allowed)

OP is not talking about informing people about the election, voting, etc

OP is saying there are election issues that may not be known to be election issues outside TB forum
Disagree a bit. OP in OP is stating that TB elections aren't promoted, and also that FTers can't raise issues even when running for TB. TB elections are promoted as much as the CommunityDirector can, and TB candidates can still express their opinion on issues, just not to the point of promoting themselves - ie, campaigning. To quote myself:

"If candidates are truly interested in an even playing field/bringing attention to issues & not just campaigning for themselves, they can bump the thread once & say 'hey there's an election going on, there are a variety of candidates with a variety of views, & if this issue (or others) is important to you, you might want to head over to TB to read the candidates bio/platforms, and answers to questions or raise a question that the CommunityDirector can ask."


Originally Posted by Jenbel
I actually think that TB has become not relevant to FT (and that's why the majority of FTers are not interested in it). It was an interesting experiment, but times have changed. We have a Community Director who is able to make decisions now. Close TB and move on.
I don't regard TB as an 'experiment' & I do think TB is helpful to the functioning of FT. I think for the most part a lot of the main 'hot button' issues have gotten sorted over the years (there are still a few remaining) & guidelines created, so there's not as much broo-ha-ha & heated discussions/massive changes to the functioning of FT that used to exist in years past. That's not a bad thing and is a natural transition, especially as BBs mature.

I think TB still holds a purpose as it is a place where FTers can go to suggest new forums & other items for the betterment of FT, where other FTers can weigh in, & TB members can consider the pros/cons/do research & bring up points that may or may not have occurred to other FTers, other TB members or the CommunityDirector, & then provide that input, in the private and public forum, to the CommunityDirector. Given the CD has multiple responsibilities, it helps to have a board that can synthesize & provide input.

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist

AFAIK there's some precedent for similar threads in various fora informing members that TB is considering a proposal that will affect the forum. Also AFAIK sometimes these announcements are started by the member(s) advocating the proposal, sometimes even leading to a discussion in the forum that will potentially be affected, and sometimes someone from TB, such as the TB President, posts about the issue and potential proposal in the substantive forum.
Agree. It's been that way since I can remember.

Originally Posted by kipper

1. I look at TalkBoard as a way to make suggestions to IB and to serve as a check and balance against unilateral Community Director decisions without any input from the community.

2. If one would like to know where those running stand, one can submit a question to the Community Director to be asked of the candidates. IIRC, in prior years, candidates were asked questions where they stood on current TB motions and even items of note that had not yet reached motion stage.
1. It's not often that the CD makes unilateral decisions without input from some segment of the community, but she does have the ability to do so if she so chooses. However, I know she follows discussions in both the private & public TB forums (and others if something is brought up for discussion). IB, for the most part, is pretty hands off so if something passes TB & the CD, as long as it's technically possible, IB is probably ok with it.

2. Agree.

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
At least last year, TB avoided having votes during the lame duck period, just before new TB members were seated. However, I don't remember any hot issues where having new TB members vote rather than those who were retiring from TB would seem to have given us a different result. Perhaps someone with more detailed knowledge of TB history can correct this impression and/or point out what the convention was in earlier years.
I can't remember if it's a formal thing, but AFAIK even if not formal, it's been an unspoken rule (at least while I've served on TB) that any motions/voting don't get started during the lame duck period (which is only a couple of weeks).

Cheers.

Last edited by SkiAdcock; Sep 24, 2013 at 12:51 pm
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 12:52 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by janetdoe
Right, but none of the official promotion and messaging tells anyone why TalkBoard is important...
I believe you have begged the question here....

Originally Posted by Jenbel
I actually think that TB has become not relevant to FT (and that's why the majority of FTers are not interested in it). It was an interesting experiment, but times have changed. We have a Community Director who is able to make decisions now. Close TB and move on.
+1

Most of the TB folks are honorable, sincere folks, but there is nothing like this on any other informational bulletin board that I'm aware of and the sturm und drang, other agendas by some, etc., etc. just don't add much to the purpose of FlyerTalk being the premier source for travel information about points and miles.

I maintained to FlyerTalk's former owner and I maintain to the CD that if they want input on something, they can ask folks whom they trust.

If you look at best practices for the most successful IBBs there is nothing like a "TalkBoard" among those practices.

They all do have something in common that FlyerTalk mostly has (although not completely adequately imo) but that that would take this thread in another direction....
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Old Sep 24, 2013, 12:54 pm
  #30  
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the point is not election itself but that election can overlap with a current issue, and people posting about the issue may not know that.

but i think a lot of this can get into moderation, and
Passed...recommend the following suggestions to [Community Director]
suggests to me that this is more complicated than other TB guidelines (re changes)

re TB - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ech-brand.html
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