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Voting Over, Motion Failed: Close the Travel News Forum

Voting Over, Motion Failed: Close the Travel News Forum

 
Old Sep 6, 13, 2:42 pm
  #1  
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Voting Over, Motion Failed: Close the Travel News Forum

Moved by kokonutz and seconded by RichMSN:

“The TalkBoard recommends that the Travel News Forum be closed and that any current and relevant threads in that forum be moved to an appropriate other FT forum.”

This vote will close on September 20, 2013, at 2:19pm or after all TalkBoard members have registered their vote, whichever comes first.

Per the TalkBoard Guidelines:

A motion shall pass if at least two-thirds of the yes or no votes cast by TalkBoard members are ‘yes’ and a majority of the total TalkBoard membership votes 'yes.'

The purpose of posting voting topics in the public TalkBoard Topics forum is to solicit member feedback on any motions that are up for a vote and to allow for comments after a vote is made. It is at the sole discretion of the individual TalkBoard members whether they choose to post in the public discussion thread, there being no requirement to do so.

So while there is already a thread and discussion on this general topic and it is safe to assume that TalkBoard members have reviewed that thread, this thread is about this specific motion.

Please feel free to post questions, comments or any other sort of feedback in this thread, or in the other discussion thread. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...refocused.html
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Old Sep 6, 13, 4:35 pm
  #2  
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I would urge the Talk Board to vote NO on this motion. There is nothing in the motion that provides for an alternative Newsstand forum or any change to the rules in the existing Travel News forum--it's sole purpose is to eliminate a forum that deals with news articles and have Travel Buzz take it's place. I want a forum that deals solely with news articles. Travel Buzz is not that forum.
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Old Sep 6, 13, 5:23 pm
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Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
I would urge the Talk Board to vote NO on this motion. There is nothing in the motion that provides for an alternative Newsstand forum or any change to the rules in the existing Travel News forum--it's sole purpose is to eliminate a forum that deals with news articles and have Travel Buzz take it's place. I want a forum that deals solely with news articles. Travel Buzz is not that forum.
and I'm going on the record very early in this discussion that I will be voting no in this
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Old Sep 6, 13, 8:11 pm
  #4  
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I generally think this will clutter other forums, primarily TravelBuzz, and don't like that idea.
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Old Sep 6, 13, 8:27 pm
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I lean to eliminating the forum. We don't have an British Airways forum and a British Airways news forum. Why should we have a general travel forum (Travelbuzz) and a General Travel news forum? It just adds one more forum that I have to put into my list (or in this case, ignore, because so little is in there.

However, I disagree with the idea that it just be destroyed. Rather it should be put in a section like the discontinued programs. Why? Because there is a lot of history in the forum, that is worth keeping. For example, I have reread the threads following September 11, 2001 in a number of forums. It is interesting to see the response to the event at the time with the perspective of the years that have followed.
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Old Sep 6, 13, 10:34 pm
  #6  
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why close forums? my take on that is its more of a general thing, either more or less forums.

re discussion about what TB can or cannot do - if TB can have input on FT TOS, then there might be some TOS related aspect that would have impact on things like travel news or other forums, that TB could be working on, in terms of modifying or suggesting modifications to TOS.
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Old Sep 6, 13, 11:02 pm
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I will keep this brief and try not to repeat much of what I said in the other thread, and tread lightly doing so with the hope of not getting suspended for my words.

Back in the day, there was Newsstand: a place where doc and others posted just links to just about every travel story they could find. It was a manual RSS feed for travel news stories.

But then at some point it was changed into what it is today. It started to require some commentary on the stories rather than just a link.

The unintended consequence was to turn Travel News (now a forum for discussing travel stories) into a mini TravelBuzz! (a forum for discussing general travel topics). And that's why it is nothing more than a smaller version of TravelBuzz at this point.

Personally, my first choice would be that news stories be posted in the appropriate forum, with general travel stories going to TravelBuzz!.

But if folks want to have a go at a re-developed Newsstand forum where the TB SPECIFICALLY outlines the purpose of the forum (eg, "to post links to any and all travel articles with as much or little comment as the poster wants", or whatever) I am willing to give that notion a shot.

But I do find it ridiculous that there are currently two forums for the discussion of hot topics regarding general travel. That's just silly.
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Old Sep 7, 13, 12:52 am
  #8  
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Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
But I do find it ridiculous that there are currently two forums for the discussion of hot topics regarding general travel. That's just silly.
Look at it from another direction. If I wanted to post a news article on Boeing announcing 2014 orders, or Airbus coming out with some new features on the 787, neither of those are really going to be hot topics. They're going to draw some interest from a handful of posters that like reading about that type of stuff, but they're not going to generate pages and pages of posts like a thread in Travel Buzz about a child in first class that has now been picked up by at least two Australian newspapers tonight mentioning FT as the source. That thread in Travel Buzz had over 100 posts by the time it was locked. There was no news link in that posting.

Look at another thread in Travel Buzz about listing what airports you have visited. No news link there, either. I just don't see Travel Buzz as a repository of news articles with links. To me Travel News, previously Newsstand, meets that need.

I looked at the 10 current threads towards the top of the forum on Travel Buzz. Not a single one has a news link. That would be where the majority of the threads in Travel News would be relocated because they are not airline or hotel specific.

Right now I can post the Boeing story in Travel News but I have to offer a comment. I could type "wow, look at these orders" and satisfy that requirement. I'd prefer to just post a few lines from the story, like we could in years past, and let it speak for itself. I was a regular poster in that forum until the commentary rules appeared and posted stories that I found interesting. I was not a posting machine like doc. I really wish the Talk Board would remove the commentary restriction. It would also save the moderator a lot of time locking threads and sending posters off to read the rules about posting without commentary.

For a long time we had a problem with moderators on the airline forums relocating threads about their airlines to Newsstand, and this was after the Talk Board passed the Newsstand posting policy in 2005. I think the mods of Newsstand/Travel News forums diligently worked on stopping them from doing that as it doesn't seem to be much of a problem now. I had a number of conversations with Pizzaman when he was the moderator there about keeping the specific airline related stories in the airline forums. That seems to be working.

I'm fine with the Talk Board policy on content in the Newsstand/Travel News forum. My only concern is the commentary restriction.

On 23 Aug 2005, the following policy regarding news article posting in the forums was passed by the TalkBoard by a vote of 7-0-2:

1. News articles referencing a specific airline/hotel/car rental/location/airport belong in the specific forum.

2. General news stories on the travel industry (including Randy Petersen references!) that are not associated with individual programs belong in Newstand, as do major news stories (accidents, bankruptcies, etc.)

3. Where a news article meets the qualifications cited in both paragraphs 1 and 2 it may be cross-posted in Newstand and the specific forum. If moderators see that cross-posted threads are continuing to duplicate each other (as opposed to taking their own paths) they will have the option of merging the threads into the forum they consider most appropriate.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ng-policy.html
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Old Sep 7, 13, 3:39 am
  #9  
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Judging by the view stats, threads in Travel News do seem to be popular. I would therefore request that our TalkBoard leave things as they are.

Last edited by Prospero; Sep 7, 13 at 3:45 am
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Old Sep 7, 13, 4:19 am
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Don't visit this forum very often. Whilst I see no use for it personally, if others want to post and read general travel news items I see no reason to stop them. Plus, in line with others comments, I'd far sooner general news items were posted here than cluttering up other forums. I therefore vote keep it. As for moderation policy, if views on this are sought then its a matter for those that regularly use the forum. I almost never do, so I don't really care so long as items that belong elsewhere get moved to the right place.
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Old Sep 7, 13, 12:50 pm
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There's a travel news forum?
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Old Sep 7, 13, 3:29 pm
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The fact that most Travel News posts are closed and/or moved is not a reason to close the forum. It is a moderation issue.
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Old Sep 7, 13, 3:59 pm
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Originally Posted by mbstone View Post
The fact that most Travel News posts are closed and/or moved is not a reason to close the forum. It is a moderation issue.
It is a moderation issue based on the defined purpose of the forum. It is both so narrow and so particular in format that the moderator/s have little choice but to close or move these posts.

Close it or change it - but leaving it as it is serves no one.
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Old Sep 7, 13, 5:10 pm
  #14  
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I would support closure of the forum.

I finally removed it from MyFlyertalk subscriptions several months because it was not adding value.

I do believe threads that would now get posted there will get more activity and involvement by a broader membership base if it belonged to the TravelBuzz forum.
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Old Sep 7, 13, 5:33 pm
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Originally Posted by mbstone View Post
...most Travel News posts are closed and/or moved....
"Most"?

Here are the stats going back to June 3 for closures/moves:
  1. 3 threads -- No news story linked to.
  2. 2 threads -- No discussion by the op. Just a "clipping"/link
  3. 19 threads -- Story that's already more appropriately under discussion in the most relevant forum or which better fits (as was always done, even in a previous era) in another forum.
  4. 1 thread -- Rudeness/persistent personal attacks
  5. 20 -- Spam threads ("Buy fake passports!") deleted

The vast majority of moved/closed threads have been for the very same reason that threads were moved or closed in a previous era (and which has been commented on upstream as something appreciated so that stories about hotels/airlines/destinations are to be found in those forums. At the same time, a 30-day re-direct is left in Travel News as a good practice to allow folks to find stories in forums they might not ordinarily follow).

For those that want to focus on the "discussion" guideline, I would simply note that there were only two such threads that were closed because they were nothing more than a link/"clipping."

So, I continue to be a bit puzzled by the claim that "most" threads are moved/closed. (Moreover, most of the ones that are moved or closed, again, are for the very same reason that most threads in Travel Buzz are moved)

Last edited by cblaisd; Sep 7, 13 at 5:48 pm
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