Voting Over, Motion Failed: Close the Travel News Forum
Sep 13, 2013, 12:24 pm
#46
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. Given that it is one of the most viewed forums on FT, it seems to me (IMO 
) that FTers do find it of value & threads interesting (at least some, just as in every other forum there are some threads of more interest than others; it varies by FTers).It was mentioned to me that the discussion 'requirement' has been changed & is no longer a requirement (although encouraged of course) & thus consideration has been given to FTers thoughts/input re: the effects of having such a requirement & their input valued.
So based on the metrics (I think someone mentioned the 4th most visited forum on FT) & that the problem that seemed to be driving FTers away probably will no longer be a problem in the future & because other FTers have said that they prefer a central forum for travel news plus letting FTers make of the forum (as any) what they will...
I am voting to keep the forum open/will not support the motion to close it.
Cheers.
Sep 13, 2013, 12:44 pm
#47
Flyertalk Evangelist and Moderator: Coupon Connection and Travel Products
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I agree with this assessment.
I found that if something was truly "Newsworthy" and posted in that forum... most likely there was a "similar" thread in the hotel/airline/MilesBuzz/TravelBuzz forum on the exact same issue.
I found very few threads there that were not covered elsewhere... so, to me it is a duplicate forum that serves no real value to me.
While I would prefer the clean up to eliminate the forum... and keep all the discussions in one forum, I understand others may feel differently.
I found that if something was truly "Newsworthy" and posted in that forum... most likely there was a "similar" thread in the hotel/airline/MilesBuzz/TravelBuzz forum on the exact same issue.
I found very few threads there that were not covered elsewhere... so, to me it is a duplicate forum that serves no real value to me.
While I would prefer the clean up to eliminate the forum... and keep all the discussions in one forum, I understand others may feel differently.
Sep 13, 2013, 12:50 pm
#48
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
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In your opinion . Given that it is one of the most viewed forums on FT, it seems to me (IMO ) that FTers do find it of value & threads interesting (at least some, just as in every other forum there are some threads of more interest than others; it varies by FTers).
It was mentioned to me that the discussion 'requirement' has been changed & is no longer a requirement (although encouraged of course) & thus consideration has been given to FTers thoughts/input re: the effects of having such a requirement & their input valued.
So based on the metrics (I think someone mentioned the 4th most visited forum on FT) & that the problem that seemed to be driving FTers away probably will no longer be a problem in the future & because other FTers have said that they prefer a central forum for travel news plus letting FTers make of the forum (as any) what they will...
I am voting to keep the forum open/will not support the motion to close it.
Cheers.
. Given that it is one of the most viewed forums on FT, it seems to me (IMO ) that FTers do find it of value & threads interesting (at least some, just as in every other forum there are some threads of more interest than others; it varies by FTers).It was mentioned to me that the discussion 'requirement' has been changed & is no longer a requirement (although encouraged of course) & thus consideration has been given to FTers thoughts/input re: the effects of having such a requirement & their input valued.
So based on the metrics (I think someone mentioned the 4th most visited forum on FT) & that the problem that seemed to be driving FTers away probably will no longer be a problem in the future & because other FTers have said that they prefer a central forum for travel news plus letting FTers make of the forum (as any) what they will...
I am voting to keep the forum open/will not support the motion to close it.
Cheers.
If it has actually changed at all. From what I see, it has not:
Originally Posted by cblaisd
Welcome to Travel News: What should be posted here & what should be posted elsewhere?
A few quick housekeeping notes....
Travel Newsis a place to discuss current news that relates to travel in some way.
HOWEVER, stories that are primarily related to one airline (or hotel chain, or car company, or the like) OR are primarily about one locale should almost always be posted in the appropriate airline/hotel/car or geographic forum.
In other words, this forum is for links to and discussion of general travel news that is not specific to a single hotel (or hotel chain) or airline or locale.
(Threads, under these definitions, that better fit in another forum will be moved there. Threads where our helpful members point out that there are already other threads on the same topic in more appropriate forums will be closed in the interest of good housekeeping.)
As such, one of the most important things to remember is this from the FT TOS:
Quote:
Information copyrighted or owned by any individual or entity other than the person posting should not be posted on the forums without the consent of the owner. If such an event occurs, the individual posting the information shall be held solely responsible. FlyerTalk shall not be held responsible for information posted by a member that may violate copyright law. If there is a news article or other piece of information you'd like to share from the web, credit the source of the information and/or give a brief two- to three- paragraph recap of the news and provide the appropriate link to the source.
http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#q91
So.... a couple of things to keep in mind
a. The forum is for discussion of travel news articles. Simply posting links to travel news articles without your own thoughts isn't really what the forum is about (there are lots of "clipping services" out there). So feel free to share what you're thinking about the story in question and invite others to join you!
b. Keep that TOS provision in mind: "a brief two- to three-paragraph recap." (Posts which copy and paste copyrighted articles beyond "fair use" -- a couple of paragraphs -- will be edited to protect FT and comply with the TOS)
One other note: sometimes travel stories are or can get intertwined with political discussions. While there is no "bright line" to point to, if your thoughts about a story are distinctly political, it would probably be better for your thread to go to OMNI/PR.
If you have questions, feel free to contact me.
cblaisd
Moderator, Travel News
A few quick housekeeping notes....
Travel Newsis a place to discuss current news that relates to travel in some way.
HOWEVER, stories that are primarily related to one airline (or hotel chain, or car company, or the like) OR are primarily about one locale should almost always be posted in the appropriate airline/hotel/car or geographic forum.
In other words, this forum is for links to and discussion of general travel news that is not specific to a single hotel (or hotel chain) or airline or locale.
(Threads, under these definitions, that better fit in another forum will be moved there. Threads where our helpful members point out that there are already other threads on the same topic in more appropriate forums will be closed in the interest of good housekeeping.)
As such, one of the most important things to remember is this from the FT TOS:
Quote:
Information copyrighted or owned by any individual or entity other than the person posting should not be posted on the forums without the consent of the owner. If such an event occurs, the individual posting the information shall be held solely responsible. FlyerTalk shall not be held responsible for information posted by a member that may violate copyright law. If there is a news article or other piece of information you'd like to share from the web, credit the source of the information and/or give a brief two- to three- paragraph recap of the news and provide the appropriate link to the source.
http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#q91
So.... a couple of things to keep in mind
a. The forum is for discussion of travel news articles. Simply posting links to travel news articles without your own thoughts isn't really what the forum is about (there are lots of "clipping services" out there). So feel free to share what you're thinking about the story in question and invite others to join you!
b. Keep that TOS provision in mind: "a brief two- to three-paragraph recap." (Posts which copy and paste copyrighted articles beyond "fair use" -- a couple of paragraphs -- will be edited to protect FT and comply with the TOS)
One other note: sometimes travel stories are or can get intertwined with political discussions. While there is no "bright line" to point to, if your thoughts about a story are distinctly political, it would probably be better for your thread to go to OMNI/PR.
If you have questions, feel free to contact me.
cblaisd
Moderator, Travel News
Sep 13, 2013, 1:08 pm
#49
Moderator Hilton Honors, Travel News, West, The Suggestion Box, Smoking Lounge & DiningBuzz
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Check it again.
Sorry for the delay in updating. Sometimes life intervenes....
Sorry for the delay in updating. Sometimes life intervenes....
Sep 13, 2013, 1:18 pm
#50
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koko, there were 2 threads re: discussion in the Travel News forum. One was changed to eliminate the 'requirement' of discussion, the other is being changed to conform with the other change from what I have been told.
Let me be very specific re: my stance on this for both TB members & FTers.
This forum is one of the most viewed forums on FT. There is no way in hades it meets a metric requirement to close it, especially given there are other forums with low traffic that could be closed instead. And if koko wants to do so re: the others, as a TB member he knows the procedure to start the process - saying the Travel News forum is 'low hanging fruit' given the metrics makes no sense to me.
TN does provide a specific service/value to FTers based on posts in this thread. If some don't feel there's value, they can do what every FTer does - frequent the forums or read the threads that are of interest to them & ignore forums or threads that aren't.
The only reason I was willing to consider closing this forum was my unhappiness in hearing FTers talk about how the discussion requirement turned them off. Given that's no longer an issue it makes no sense to me at all that the forum should be closed. The other being is that I just went back & reviewed the first page of threads in both TN & TB - they're different types of threads - one more news oriented & one more experience/question oriented, so based on that I think it makes sense to keep them both open & keep them separate.
I can't speak for other TB members, but I hope that they'll vote to keep the forum open. Heck we've got 3-4 other proposals which will impact FT more up for discussion/possible motion & I think we should focus on those!!
Cheers.
Let me be very specific re: my stance on this for both TB members & FTers.
This forum is one of the most viewed forums on FT. There is no way in hades it meets a metric requirement to close it, especially given there are other forums with low traffic that could be closed instead. And if koko wants to do so re: the others, as a TB member he knows the procedure to start the process - saying the Travel News forum is 'low hanging fruit' given the metrics makes no sense to me.
TN does provide a specific service/value to FTers based on posts in this thread. If some don't feel there's value, they can do what every FTer does - frequent the forums or read the threads that are of interest to them & ignore forums or threads that aren't.
The only reason I was willing to consider closing this forum was my unhappiness in hearing FTers talk about how the discussion requirement turned them off. Given that's no longer an issue it makes no sense to me at all that the forum should be closed. The other being is that I just went back & reviewed the first page of threads in both TN & TB - they're different types of threads - one more news oriented & one more experience/question oriented, so based on that I think it makes sense to keep them both open & keep them separate.
I can't speak for other TB members, but I hope that they'll vote to keep the forum open. Heck we've got 3-4 other proposals which will impact FT more up for discussion/possible motion & I think we should focus on those!!
Cheers.
Last edited by SkiAdcock; Sep 13, 2013 at 1:29 pm
Sep 13, 2013, 1:31 pm
#51
Moderator Hilton Honors, Travel News, West, The Suggestion Box, Smoking Lounge & DiningBuzz
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I very much appreciate both Sharon's and Carol's reaching out to discuss this in a thoughtful, civil, respectful way to find what is most helpful for FlyerTalk.
There were two stickied "housekeeping" threads in Travel News. One of these explicitly focused on the "recap and discussion" requirement in response to both the FT TOS and some previous era spamming/post-padding in the forum. All was done in consultation with the Community Director.
That thread has now been eliminated and there is one now-updated "Welcome" thread in the forum which encourages (but does not require) discussion on what is, after all, a discussion board
In response to some other regular Travel News users thoughtfully, civilly, and respectfully reaching out, I will now (assuming the forum stays open) leave permanent re-directs (instead of just 30-day ones, as an earlier user requested) for any threads that are moved to the appropriate airline/hotel/destination forum so that FTers can better find news that is of interest.
Again, I appreciate those who have weighed in on this thread in helpful ways, along with those who have done so privately. Thank you.
cblaisd
Moderator, Travel News
There were two stickied "housekeeping" threads in Travel News. One of these explicitly focused on the "recap and discussion" requirement in response to both the FT TOS and some previous era spamming/post-padding in the forum. All was done in consultation with the Community Director.
That thread has now been eliminated and there is one now-updated "Welcome" thread in the forum which encourages (but does not require) discussion on what is, after all, a discussion board
In response to some other regular Travel News users thoughtfully, civilly, and respectfully reaching out, I will now (assuming the forum stays open) leave permanent re-directs (instead of just 30-day ones, as an earlier user requested) for any threads that are moved to the appropriate airline/hotel/destination forum so that FTers can better find news that is of interest.
Again, I appreciate those who have weighed in on this thread in helpful ways, along with those who have done so privately. Thank you.
cblaisd
Moderator, Travel News
Sep 13, 2013, 2:13 pm
#52
Community Director Emerita
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Posts: 33,741
This thread is a great example of members, Talkboard, and moderators coming together to do what is best for the members of FlyerTalk. Let me recap a bit of history. For some years, we had one/some mods who basically let the grass and weeds grow as they will in the Travel News forum without any effort to see if some landscaping might be in order. When cblaisd became mod, he suggested to me that some tending of these fields might be in order. I supported him in asking that links to news articles have some points made as to why it was an interesting article for folks to read. I know that in personal life, I am sent a fair number of news links. I am far more likely to read them if the person who forwards them gives a line or two as to content and why I might find it interesting.
Rolling forward a couple years, we now have this thread. I've seen a number of excellent posters weigh in that they don't like this requirement. And certainly there are Talkboard members who do not. The mod for the forum was carefully following the thread, and realized that a requirement that seemed to the two of us to be reasonable actually was disliked by some. He was flexible enough to eliminate the requirement of requiring a discussion when a link is posted. That occurred earlier today. I hope that many will continue to offer a sentence or two as to why anyone should read the thread when they post their link. But folks are welcome to post links without commentary. Sometimes, titles speak for themselves.
I appreciate the excellent conversation that has occurred here and privately. Our joint goal is always to do what is best for FlyerTalk and for FlyerTalkers.
Carol
Community Director
Rolling forward a couple years, we now have this thread. I've seen a number of excellent posters weigh in that they don't like this requirement. And certainly there are Talkboard members who do not. The mod for the forum was carefully following the thread, and realized that a requirement that seemed to the two of us to be reasonable actually was disliked by some. He was flexible enough to eliminate the requirement of requiring a discussion when a link is posted. That occurred earlier today. I hope that many will continue to offer a sentence or two as to why anyone should read the thread when they post their link. But folks are welcome to post links without commentary. Sometimes, titles speak for themselves.
I appreciate the excellent conversation that has occurred here and privately. Our joint goal is always to do what is best for FlyerTalk and for FlyerTalkers.
Carol
Community Director
Sep 13, 2013, 4:06 pm
#53
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Is the title of the forum being changed too? It's the same, Travel News, on the forum list and the top of the forum itself, but I see now that cblaisd is now designated as moderator of Newstand under his/her username.
Sep 13, 2013, 4:09 pm
#54
Community Director Emerita
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Then I need to update his title. I've done nothing to his title recently.
Sep 13, 2013, 8:09 pm
#55
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Can doc's name be restored to the forum description? Somewhere along the way that changed, too.
His thousands of posts in Newsstand helped make it a successful forum from the start of FT.
His thousands of posts in Newsstand helped make it a successful forum from the start of FT.
Link to and discuss the latest travel news articles. Nicknamed "Doc's Newsstand," it's all the news (for travelers) that's fit to read.
Sep 13, 2013, 8:40 pm
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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I am happy to see that cooler heads have prevailed and that bridges were built and consensus made ! When looking at the forum in question yesterday was aghast. Glad that management saw fit to enable change, hopefully it will lead to more discussion there !
Sep 13, 2013, 10:04 pm
#57
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
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Thanks to our Community Director and the moderator of the forum for listening carefully to the will of the posters.
Sep 13, 2013, 10:10 pm
#58
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Sep 13, 2013, 11:52 pm
#59
Community Director Emerita
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Sep 14, 2013, 8:02 am
#60
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I urge the Board to leave the Travel News forum open. I think it is more focused than TravelBuzz on these types of matters, and thus making them easier to find.
On one specific point, it seems to me that TN is where posts should be housed or at least linked when there are news items which have impact beyond a single travel provider. And that has not always been the case. For example, if DL planned to move its hub/focus city from SLC to DEN, yes that is clearly of import to the DL community. But it also will likely impact UA, F9, etc. And people regularly in those fora may not be aware of the DL move if that is contained only in the DL forum (and yes, I understand if they are looking in fora for a few select travel providers, they may not see in TN either). Some of the above discussion I skimmed seems to indicate that cross links may now be permanent, which is helpful. But TN would seem to be the appropriate nexus of these types of items.
TRRed
On one specific point, it seems to me that TN is where posts should be housed or at least linked when there are news items which have impact beyond a single travel provider. And that has not always been the case. For example, if DL planned to move its hub/focus city from SLC to DEN, yes that is clearly of import to the DL community. But it also will likely impact UA, F9, etc. And people regularly in those fora may not be aware of the DL move if that is contained only in the DL forum (and yes, I understand if they are looking in fora for a few select travel providers, they may not see in TN either). Some of the above discussion I skimmed seems to indicate that cross links may now be permanent, which is helpful. But TN would seem to be the appropriate nexus of these types of items.
TRRed