Defining the mission of MilesBuzz; Adding a Flame Free Q&A Forum?
 

I would like to discuss the mission of MilesBuzz and its tendency to attract Newbie/Handholding request threads.

I see the primary missions of MilesBuzz as:

1. Highlighting Hot Deals: high-value limited-time offers of all kinds, even if only by pointing to discussion elsewhere on FT,
2. Discussion of industry trends in FF programs, e.g. pros and cons of revenue-based accrual and/or redemption, comparisons between FF programs, and even major gripes and kudos directed at specific programs
3. News of important adverse changes to any program. This is the flip side of hot deals. MilesBuzz would carry a summary, discuss the issue briefly, then direct further discussion to the correct company-specific forum.

Member-specific help requests are certainly NOT within the mission of MilesBuzz. I will discuss that subject later in this post.

In short, reading MilesBuzz should be sufficient to give any member a degree of assurance that he has not missed anything of critical importance. If there's one thing we FT'ers hate, it's missing out on a deal because we never heard about it!

The trick here is to allow MilesBuzz to carry information whose default home is elsewhere. Wikis can help accomplish this. My initial idea is to have:

One unlocked sticky thread for discussion of *all* Hot Deals. The member-maintained Wiki for that thread would summarize the best current hot deals and contain links to detailed discussion on MilesBuzz or elsewhere.

One unlocked sticky thread for discussion of *all* Devaluations and other bad news about points and miles. Again, a member-maintained Wiki for that thread would summarize the most important recent devaluations and contain links to detailed discussion on MilesBuzz or elsewhere.

Discussion threads about industry trends for loyalty programs, comparisons of Program A vs. Program B, and any other generic discussion of miles and points. Once the discussion turned program-specific, the moderators could lock the thread and provide a pointer to a thread in a company-specific forum.

As to questions from newbies and others who want specific advice for their needs, IMHO that badly needs to be separated from the high-value miles and points news. A Flame-Free Q&A forum should be created for this purpose, and these questions should be moved there immediately from MilesBuzz.

Please comment on any or all of this. Let's either shoot this down in flames or make it the best it can be, so the TalkBoard can get it right the first time.

Very much looking forward to the responses to this thread. I think nsx has put forth some good ideas worth consideration.

If the default is elsewhere, why repost in MBuzz?

Shouldn't the 'training' be, if looking for hotel deals see hotel deal forum, if looking for mileage run deals, see mileage run deals forum, etc etc.
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Exactly on all counts.

There's already far too much duplication of information in too many places, and far too many off-topic threads in the wrong forums that no one searching would ever expect to find in those places. Why intentionally make all of that worse? The main point of FT is to be an up-to-date library for information about travel/miles/points/destinations/etc., and one ought to expect to put in a little study in order to use a library well. And the library ought not have practices in place that undercut its own purpose.

It's a great idea - but unfortunately I've never read Milesbuzz as its too US centric. I don't know how you address that because you need to get a core group of non-Americans participating in it to share the information which would make it less US centric but they have to be willing to battle through the fact 95-99% of all stuff in there are US related. Have a non-US sub forum?

A New Award Planning Forum?
 

Agree 10000000000%!

Unfortunately that's the current de facto state of MilesBuzz! Forum today, which is very disappointing and frustrating for those of us who visit for milesbuzzing purpose. We have a significant number of people that lay out their requests and take over MilesBuzz! Forum and MilesBuzz! isn't milesbuzzing no more! :(

Chase UR Forum was created for a reason: traffic & demand. IMHO, same thing has been happening to award redemption/planning that floods MilesBuzz! Forum, due to the "ripple effect" from years of cc churning and/or signup bonuses. Folks got help and earned tons of miles/points, but they don't know what or how to use them now.

Maybe it's time to think about a dedicated forum for this line of member requests. When folks need assistance to use their points/miles, either as a novice or savvy FTer, I would think a separate forum for the purpose of award planning or redemption should be more helpful and useful. I don't think a thread-oriented approach will adequately address this specific type of need.

With a dedicated forum, folks who need help would know where exactly to ask for assistance. For those who are willing to help out, they would certainly frequent such forum. When a request turned out to be a simple FFP redemption, MOD could easily relocate such thread to the airline forum, thus no worries for cross-posting. Everybody would be happier! :)

So what about a new Award Planning Forum?

My idea for an Award Planning Forum is different from a Q&A Forum. A general Q&A Forum is certainly not milesbuzzing but would do good for those who:

1. are clueless newbies;
2. want to travel (for free) but don't have miles/points at bay;
3. need basic FT education;
4. don't know how and/or where to start their research for FFPs;
5. don't know where to ask their questions or which forum their questions belong;
6. have questions that involve multi-FFP or alliance;
7. have many more general Qs.

I do think separating award planning from general Qs will be a more clean-cut restructuring for FT. Award Planning Forum would still belong to Miles&Points Section but a general catchall Q&A Forum shall be less fitting.

Same challenge with credit card offers but there are just not enough deals or discussion to warrant a non-US subforum in CC Programs. I suspect the same low level of traffic with non-US milesbuzzing threads.

Years ago, I had suggested reordering how the forums show for members. I think one of the reason MilesBuzz gets so loaded with new member posts is that it is the first forum that shows for them. It is no surprise that new people post in that forum... it does not require any "searching" of what other forums are available.

Thanks for the insightful replies, lin821 and wharvey.

How about putting Flame Free Q&A at the top of the list of forums and also adding a new Award Planning Forum somewhere near the top of the list?

With an award planning forum, wouldn't a lot of people end up posting questions there that should go in the appropriate airline forum instead? Will it confuse people? If I have a question about redeeming my miles for a DL award, do I ask the questions in the DL forum or the award planning forum?

It could be called something like "award planning across programs" or "award planning when transfers of miles/points are involved" for emphasis since a lot of people don't read the forum's description before posting, let alone any "read this first" sticky or announcement.

Moving MilesBuzz lower on the list would indeed protect it from some of the posts that folks find counterproductive or objectionable there, but at the cost of inconvenience to people who want to be able to check MilesBuzz quickly and often to make sure that they don't miss any big news.

That's where "My Flyertalk" comes in handy @:-)

Cheers.

True, but not everyone uses it or even is aware of its features.

Of course it will for both new & not-so-new members alike and is why I'd not be in favor of creating such a forum. IMHO the best way to rationalize access to information is to consolidate and have fewer forums, not constantly be creating more forums which only helps to divide & diffuse.

For example why have one idine forum, which sees only a few threads created per month, and a separate DiningBuzz! forum when the two could be consolidated into something that serves both purposes? Call it "Dining Discussion & Meal Plans" or something similar to indicate the dual purpose but it just seems natural to me to have both together.

Same with having Hotel Deals within Miles & Points when to me it's morphed into more of a hotel misprice/special offer forum than one to earn miles or points from posted hotel stays. Again, maybe it would be more intuitive to have it amalgamated within a renamed Hotels subheading.

If that kind of consolidation means we need to redo the current headings of Miles & Points, Community, etc. then maybe more generic headings can be used instead such as "Air Programs", "Hotels", "Destinations", etc.

Like cblaisd & Sweet Willie I'd rather see us maximizing the forums already in place before rushing to create new ones which to me is the easy way out.

Why an Award Planning Forum will do FT good?
 

I do agree creating new fora isn't the ultimate solution for every demand or problem on FT. Just like I think our current Budget Forum should be sufficient to address the need to discuss LCCs. Not to mention there's not that many threads to complain about Spirit/Easyjet/Ryannair on FT to start with. :p :D

The reality is things have evolved now that we've seen an influx of FTers, both new and old, who need assistance with their award redemption and planning after earning thousands (or millions) of miles/points. Not to mention award redemption has outgrown from a single FFP to alliance partners. The way I see it is, currently, there's not a proper forum on FT to discuss awards with complicated routings and/or multiple redemption, especially across alliances and/or hotel chains. That's also one of the reasons why an increasing number of threads pops up in MilesBuzz! everyday, asking for help to use their miles/points. Afterall, those thread have no where to go on FT.

If FT is able to educate FTers how to earn their countless miles/points in every possible way, why not step up to teach people how to take the full advantage of what they've earned? Back when the U.S. mint deal was alive, FT was able to help folks earns millions of miles/points. Now the FF world has grown much bigger than mint earning (thanks to FT & countless bloggers :p), why shouldn't FT live up to its reputation as "The FT University" by having a forum devoted to award planning & redemption?

FT is filled with knowledgeable savvy FTers that do know how to get to destinations on awards. Better yet, FTers get educated and help each other for free. Although I've never had that many miles and haven't flown that many airlines, I simply can't tell you how much I'd learned from reading the advices given in those award assistance threads about creative routing and possible combinations of programs. Just like the old saying, "you learn something new everyday on FT!"

FT deserves an opportunity to have an educational corner so FTers can do and be their best: planning awards using FF knowledge. Imagine the joy when every award mission is accomplished with a new Award Planning Forum! :)

If your example of Delta redemption is all on a single carrier, Delta, of course Delta Forum will be where to ask for help. I had thought about the possible confusion and addressed such concern for misplaced threads in my post:
Let's face it. Newbies or not, there will always be people who post in the "less-fitting" forum. I lost count of how many misplaced threads I've read in MilesBuzz! Forum when they should have been in the airline fora. Those simple award redemption threads are always easy to tell and moved by MODs promptly afterwards.

The Award Planning Forum I envision is to not overlap with airline/hotel fora. Furthermore, it should cut down confusion and the need to cross-post. For those of us who know FT well, we do know where to post such threads. For those who are still learning about FT, an "educational" redirect from either MOD or helpful fellow FTers should do the trick. So I wouldn't be too worried about single FFP redemption threads steal base in the new award planning forum. They would end up where they belong eventually.

Let's see the example in Chase UR Forum. When Chase UR Forum was created and introduced, it was made clear not a forum for all Chase cards. As we all know it by now, depending on the nature of the cards, Chase CC discussion can be seen in either the airline forum, the Credit Card Forum, or Chase UR Forum. The new Chase UR Forum doesn't create more confusion.

Just like Chase UR Forum is not a catchall forum for every Chase card, my proposing Award Planning Forum isn't for every award redemption either. With a new forum, it's easy to give instruction and direction to folks. A clear and straight-forward forum description should guide the users well, explaining a simple FFP or hotel award redemption belongs to their designated airline/hotel forum. As a matter of fact, I can only see more good coming from an Award Planning Forum for FT in a long run.

ps. I am not protective at all of how to name my proposed new forum for award redemption, if TB decides to work toward such reorganization, either "Award Planning" or something with more wording to specify what I have envisioned so far up thread, I am good! I actually see this proposed new forum as both educational and challenging in FFP and loyal program knowledge among FTers. How much more fun can FT be, right?

But isn't that education already happening within the individual airline fora as well as the alliance forums? Why create yet another redundant layer? Rather than create an award 'answer desk' I'd rather us encourage members to learn by seeking their own answers by breaking down a multifaceted question on air & hotel into more manageable components and research each component within the applicable airline or hotel fora.

While strictly MHO to use the "teach a person to fish" proverb it seems we'd rather give members a fish rather than teaching them how to fish for themselves.

I think this has some real merit.... Maybe the "Fun With Food" forum ;) Topics that would be germane would include any "foody" threads (that weren't specific to a certain destination), general restaurant (non-destination specific) discussions ("Poi: Love It or Hate It?"), general iDine discussions. That's just a not-yet-caffeinated enough initial thought.

(bolding mine)

That's exactly where the problem is.

We want to have a setup that encourage people to participate and contribute on FT. When one has to break down a complicated award planning for one single vacation that mixes hotels & airlines into a dozen of threads all over FT, it does nobody good. Multiple threads could even bleed over to the fringe of cross-posting, a clear violation of TOS. Not to mention how frustrating and challenging it would be for the potential OP to break things down in order to fit FT's current structure.

I don't deny education is and has been happening in our individual airline/hotel/alliance forum. However, the current setup doesn't make it easy when FTers need help across different airline and hotel fora. I, for one, surely don't want to read someone's vacation to say Hawaii in 3 airline & 2 hotel fora.

Case in point: [Primer] Using Points for French Polynesia

Where should this French Polynesia on points thread go? Or in your line of reasoning, how many threads do one have to break up his vacation planning in order to visit French Polynesia on points? Five or 10 threads? :eek:

Strictly speaking, this French Polynesia doesn't belong to the MilesBuzz! Forum in my mind since it's not any FFP buzzing. However, it would be the ideal example for my proposed Award Planning Forum.

Not every award planning would be as challenging or complicated as French Polynesia. My hope is when an award planning forum is created, every FTer can learn something out of it, either for education or fun. My vision for say forum is NOT a boring "answer desk." Rather, it should be a new corner for brain storming where FTers can compare notes about award planning.

Are there really many threads across FT asking for help with multiples airlines and hotels at the same time? Guess I'm not sure there is a demonstrated need for such a forum if that is the criteria. How many threads have you noticed in the last week that would qualify for this new forum? That might be a good starting point as to whether there is demand.

In the case of airlines, don't the alliance forums cover multiple carriers already? What would you do with the planning threads in those? Would they get moved to the new award planning forum being that they involve multiple carriers?

Two thoughts:

1. MilesBuzz! could host threads to list hot deals, but I think the discussion should be elsewhere. A list could be maintained in a Wikipost. The obstacle is that locking a thread also locks the Wikipost. Another obstacle is that updating the Wikipost does not generate a Subscription notification; there must be a reply to the thread.

2. Rather than a single mixed thread I suggest following FlyerTalk's established layout with separate threads for: airline, hotel, auto rental and credit card deals. We already have a credit card thread (temporarily relocated to Credit Card Programs).

Thanks for your input, mia. Using separate threads seems logical. What problems do you foresee if these hot deal threads are unlocked? In your opinion do the problems outweigh the advantage of letting members update the Wiki in real time?

I don't have answer to that question since that's not how I've seen people voice their need using multiple threads for award planning/advice across FT.

People tend to do it using one single thread in MilesBuzz! Forum, where I visit more often than individual airline forums. Sometimes people don't even know their awards can be booked across airlines/alliance and/or hotel chains. For example, sometimes people have to pull miles/points from different loyal programs, say UR, Amex, SPG + different airlines into one or two designated accounts in order to accomplish their goals for a family trip. All these will be good candidates for the proposed forum. Multiple programs can be both the outcome and the sources of miles/points, hence the need for helping hands in award planning.

Just take a look at the first 2 pages of MilesBuzz! Forum right now. More than half of MilesBuzz! threads are about award redemption and planning. Not only does it take over Milesbuzz, but it also had triggered the other TB discussion thread about the status quo of MilesBuzz! Forum back in April:

WTH is this? A "how can I travel for free" forum?

If the status quo of MilesBuzz doesn't demonstrate the need, I don't know what would.

Then we can happily disagree because I don't see encouraging members to fully explore and utilize the FT we have at present as a "problem". In fact quite the opposite as I see further subdividing FT with ever more forums that overlap existing ones as a problem in and of itself, though that is merely MHO.

Who says you have to or would even notice those separate threads? Not sure also how separate threads on separate topics in separate forums is bad or contrary to TOS as that's exactly what I did when asking about UA awards on NH, Hilton hotel info and destination advice in the both Japan and San Francisco forums while planning a recent NRT trip. How does that do nobody good? It sure worked for me as I got the answers to the specific questions I had when I had them so why do we want to offer what seems to me to be a disincentive to utilizing the present resources FT has? I can't say it makes sense to me but that's merely MHO and YMMV.

I think a thread hosting simultaneous discussion of multiple deals would be difficult to follow, and compete with the parallel discussion in the program forum.

Parallel threads dilute FlyerTalk's knowledgebase. A thread in the airline, hotel, air or card forum will draw the most knowledgeable posters, while a discussion of the same offer in MilesBuzz! often draws lots of questions which have already been answered in those forums. I would like to see MilesBuzz! function as a conduit to direct members to the program forum where they can learn about an offer in context.

A mixed topic thread is also awkward to moderate, because we cannot (for example) easily redirect discussion of one offer to another thread, while leaving the thread open for discussion of other offers.

Then they are not trying.

Maybe this will finally lead to some resolution of the MB issues that TB has been supposedly discussing for months.

Whatever MB should be, it's already a help me, newbie, etc thread! So to those wondering about the need, thats already being demonstrated. I already suggested simply renaming it and being done with it.

Personally, I like the way Mile Point is organized. There is a Newbie forum, a General Miles forum, and.program specific. And the Newbie forum seems to work well. Maybe parochial pride means FT won't consider looking at that for ideas but I hope not.

Other internet boards for other areas of life often have Newbie type, help me forums, too, so I honestly dont see it as unusual.

I do miss the old MB. I think something like it is important to serve as an alternative to blogs, as far as buzzworthy news source. FT should be more willing to experiment and evolve, or will be left behind.

Need an "Asking for Advice" Forum/Sub-Forum
 

I know this has been mentioned in other threads, but the Miles Buzz Forum is so overrun with posts asking for advice on specific itineraries, which airline to concentrate on, etc that it is getting harder and harder to find a useful post about general ideas for earning or spending miles and/or points.

Please set up an Asking for Advice Forum or Sub-Forum where these posts can go so that we don't have to plow through dozens of posts to find the new, useful ones.

Thanks.

I have to say that I actually find those posts valuable... and I learn much from the responses members make when helping other members.

We can all find threads we do not like in any forum we visit... the nice thing is that nothing requires us to click on and open a thread we do not like (as long as the OP used an accurate title!).

I still think that we get a lot of "new member" threads in MilesBuzz because it is the first forum people see.... move it down on the list and I think we would probably see a decrease in those threads. But just a guess on my part.

An advice or whatever forum or subforum has been the subject of discussion, so we've merged these to maintain continuity and continue the discussion for the benefit of TalkBoard members.

/Moderator

It would be a bit funny if all such posts then appeared in the Aegean Airlines forum, even for people looking for strategies to get free tickets to Asia, Africa, and Latin America.

However, I do subscribe to the notion that many new people don't pay attention or try to learn anything about FT before just posting whatever in the first forum they stumble into. It's sometimes amusing.

I like the idea of an Asking for Advice Forum and the MilesBuzz being a list of new mileage earning deals in one place that could link to the specific airling/hotel etc where the discussion would continue

I'll admit to being lazy and liking it quite a lot when an interesting opportunity pops up in one centralized area because I don't want to have to dig through every single other subforum to turn it up. Example- there's a Jet Blue promo right now that lets you rack up 1000 free points in their loyalty program for about 10-15 minutes of effort. I normally have no reason to pay attention to Jet Blue; the nearest they come to my house is about a four hour's drive away in New Orleans. But you can swap those points at Points.com into any number of other programs because you can pull points out of True Blue in 1000 point chunks there. Which could get me 630 PC points or 230 Skypesos, that would actually be relevant for my travel purposes.

This is the kind of stuff I'd love to see in MilesBuzz- places to pick up a bit of loyalty currency where you wouldn't necessarily expect it. If it's buried in the Jet Blue forum where it's currently getting some discussion, I never see it; instead I was just lucky to find out about the promo while glancing through Slick Deals.

Please please create the "Help me find awards" subforum. Milesbuzz is just dying with all these "help me" posts.

Actually, we should send all of them to the bloggers. After all, it is they who held their hand, step-by-step and showed them how to earn the miles. :D

They didn't bother telling them how to even begin looking at redeeming them - much less some of the hoops they have to jump through to redeem certain awards.

Miles Buzz is a total waste now. I fully support a new forum where people can ask for help redeeming their miles/points.

^ Makes sense to me.

As others have suggested, add an "Read This First" explanatory note at the top of the forum, explaining that it not for questions about specific hotel or airline awards, or about the use of specific cc point. (Or, if it might save the Mods some hassles of moving many newbie/lazy hotel/airline-specific questions to other forums, more explicitly say "Read This First to Get Your Questions Addressed").

And perhaps tweak the suggested title a bit if a title like "General Award Advice Forum" might convey that the new forum is not for airline/hotel-specific questions and that it includes award advice (such as re points/miles accrual) that might extend beyond planning specific trips.

But these are just details that I'm sure the Mods' collective wisdom can sort out.

I concur. The purpose of MB has been hijacked by advice threads. It seems like there have been enough of them lately to create a new forum--and it should be the first one visitors see.

Second the motion
 

I like the idea of an awards planning forum.

I agree the forum isn't what it used to be but it's changed because IMHO we're not proactively encouraging members, especially newer ones, to invest the time to research their questions in the individual forums that already exist and that are outstanding resources. Creating a brand new forum merely enables that behavior which ultimately I think makes FT harder not easier to use with added layers of duplication.

Indeed. How about one thread that is meant to help people with their award planning? Something like the US Star award thread?

I agree. But most of these people don't want to be bothered to learn. As an ambassador, I'm really not supposed to tell people to "go search & read." The point of the program is to help newbies, which I do, but only if after I search their posting history I see that they are truly trying to learn and not just posting to get that free vacation the bloggers promised.

FWIW - in the individual program forums, at least those I look at, these newbies are mostly being ignored by the regulars.

I think we need a place to send them and those who want to help can go to that forum. Part of that help could and should include, the information/means to find the information themselves.

I am aware of it. I know it's features. I don't like it.

Can we please not keep assuming that there is a one size fits all (which - of course - happens to be the way you like to do things!) and that if someone doesn't like it/finds it awkward/doesn't use it then it is their fault for not being willing to do what you do? Thinking like that is how we get monstrous mega threads running to thousands of posts across years and years and years that become more and more inaccessible as time goes on...

Thanks.

When I run training, I have to bear in mind that people learn in different ways. That's what we are doing here - learning. And to assume there is only one way to do it is to ignore a lot of research into behaviours associated with learning. One size does not fit all when it comes to learning.