goalie

And playing devil's advocate-a) the "welcome to your first visit" forum imho, is just that-a first visit and (again, imho), do you think that new members will use that forum after they are dumped there on their first visit and b) imho, it's hard enough seeing all the "do a search"/"search is your friend" posts in the existing forums and if the new "welcome forum" will be flame free, will members who post "do a search"/"search is your friend" types of posts be "reminded" that posts of that nature are not the basis of the new forum (and yes, I know that is up to the forum moderator(s) but I'm asking you specifically for your opinion)

Agreed ^

nsx

Three possible ways, any of which would be fine:

1. A member could post the link and ask the OP to edit the top post to add the link.

2. A moderator could edit the top post to add the link.

3. A member could create a Wikipost at the top of the thread and include the link.

The 4th option is for a moderator to delete the thread, but I regard that as an inferior option unless the topic is not "hot" enough.

jackal

^^^

goalie

That's an awful lot of "could's"

nsx

It's not up to TalkBoard to figure out how the forum operates, only that the definition of the forum makes it reasonable to expect fairly smooth operation.

goalie

Correct as to it not being up to TB to figure out how a forum operates but to simply throw it to the moderators with a "here you go, we voted on this, you fix it" is imho, not productive. Also (and no disrespect the the membership), but I can't think that members will all be asking OP's to edit their posts and/or create a wiki posts-yes the wiki posts are growing but that, like this is also a work in progress. Now with that being said, the premise proposed is good but imho, it needs a lot more work vs what (imho) I see being rushed through.

philemer

^ Exactly. Slow down TB and get some more input.

HansGolden

At this point, I'm in favor of splitting MB into a Buzz forum and a Questions forum. However, I have two practical questions I haven't seen a good answer/solution for:
1. How are dupe threads handled between buzz and FFP/CC forum?
2. What should the questions forum (which I'd like to see sit at the very top of the forum hierarchy) be named to encompass both newbie flame-free questions and trip/award planning questions?

On #1, I'm actually flirting with the idea of having the Buzz forum locked. Then mods could move buzzworthy threads from FFP forums to MB and then instantly back to their home forum leaving a permanent redirect. I hate dupe threads and find them very inefficient.

If people don't like that idea, I'd be in favor giving Buzz a very explicit mandate to be overview only, with a link at top to main, in-depth thread.

lin821

IMHO, there's no such forum name and solution for this.

As I had said before, a general A forum is NOT the same as an award planning forum and they shouldn't be lumped together in a single forum. I don't know how many new fora should "branched out" from our currently catchall-MilesBuzz! Forum but I am not fond of the idea to have a general Q forum to take on the challenge of award planning advice/suggestion. To say the least, neither general advice nor award redemption is milesbuzzing.

The forum structure on FT is theme-based & savvy FTers are quite mile/point conscious in terms of earning and redeeming. I believe traffic and earning strategies are some major reasons behind creating our mint Manufactured Spending Forum. Folks visit this new forum, knowing they will be reading about "spending strategies" to earn mile/point. I think it was a wise decision from admin to have Manufactured Spending Forum separated from the longstanding general Credit Card Programs Forum, where some of the basics about cc and credit rating is discussed. I say if the Manufactured Spending were to pour into CC Programs Forum, the discussion and participation level may have been a different story from today.

The theme for Manufactured Spending is very clear: strategizing for the purpose of earning point/mile. If a new general advice forum were created to house a wide range of newbie Qs and award planning, I am afraid it would lose its clear focus and/or appeal on award planning mindstorming sessions. I am not saying award planning is not advice seeking. It's just award planning has a distinct theme, planning awards, especially when currently there's no forum on FT that can properly address cross-program/alliance comparison w/r/t award planning, we need a good home for this type of discussion. Just like threads on manufactured spending, the number of request threads about award redemption has proved its need and case. It goes without saying, award for a specific FFP or hotel program belongs to its own forum. My idea of an award planning forum is NOT meant to be a parallel or duplicate discussion forum from our standalone FFP/hotel fora.

ps. I am having some computer problem recently, so I don't have the same liberty and laptop time to explain myself as clearly as I used to. I can only try my best to squeeze some food for thought when my time allows before TB finalizing any motion/s to restructuring FT.

tcook052

Sorry but I respectfully disagree and see any catch-all award forum as definitely duplicating what could and should be directed toward the individual airline/hotel fora.

While well meant IMHO we do a disservice to the mostly new members when we give quick answers to what are fairly complex comparisons and would rather see us focus instead on encouraging them to break down the laundry list of programs into more manageable chunks and do their own research within in the individual airline/hotel/CC for a and educate themselves about what programs work best for them and why.

That's merely MHO.

lin821

I had elaborated what kind of award planning forum I was proposing (see post#6, post#14, post#17, post#21), so I am not going to repeat myself.

(bolding mine)

I tried to look up your referenced thread/s but couldn't find the specifics that you asked for comparisons among programs. However, from your descriptions, it seems you've made up your mind which specific airline and hotel you were going to use, hence it made perfect sense to post your questions in each designated fora. My proposed award planning forum wouldn't be the right place for you anyway.

I am also not advocating this award planning forum to be a one-stop shop and/or travel agency/operator to plan for one's vacation. Award Planning Forum isn't a place for anyone to relieve themselves from doing their own legwork or homework.

Without base knowledge of individual airline/hotel programs, comparisons won't be possible. Research for a specific airline, hotel and destination is best done in its designated forum. There's no doubt about that. However, it's hard, if not impossible, to get cross-program input when a thread posts in an individual loyal program forum. Challenges present themselves for those who have options but haven't made up their mind. That's where Award Planning Forum comes in. Both newbie and savvy FTers like to have input, 2nd or even 3rd opinion on what's the best combo of route/redemption/airline for their itinerary. FT currently doesn't have a sufficient channel to meet such need. Of course, we do have alliance fora but that doesn't fully address cross-alliance comparison w/r/t redemption.

I am not proposing a catch-all award forum at all, if you read my earlier posts. Not to mention it's impossible to give quick answers to fairly complex comparisons.

Don't forget some of the most interesting award assistance requests are NOT from new members.

So, without an new award planning forum, which individual forum should this thread belong to, tcook052, if you don't mind me asking (again), since it's not milesbuzzing?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...ynesia-13.html

HansGolden

Lin821, I did read your posts in this thread and am well aware that your preference is to have separate Newbie/InfoDesk and AwardBooking forums. Thank you for the passion and work you put into your posts. That being said, this is one place where I (and a few others on TB) simply disagree. It doesn't feel like we should be adding two forums because there is not the demonstrated volume and need. At this point my vision (and I think I can safely say, the vision of a few other TBers) is to add (converted from those MB threads) a catch all questions forum at the very top. Perhaps you are right and there's enough distinct traffic in both categories to warrant two different forums, but it seems to me that I won't be able to tell that until the forum has been up and running while being properly labeled. It seems starting off with one forum is the more measured, deliberate, empirical course of action. Given your insight into FT, you very well could be right, but for those of us less astute, we're going to try for a double first instead of swinging for the fences.

tcook052

^ though hope in its wisdom TB resists the temptation to call it an 'awards' forum.

Isn't there already an existing forum in which topics on French Polynesia including how to get there are discussed?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ocean...h-pacific-706/

HansGolden

At this point I'm leaning toward having a generic "Questions"-type title with example types of questions (yes, sorry, including awards) in the subtitle.

tcook052

Then I'm sorry too Hans as while I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion I just can't see a dual purpose forum working as intended as the generic newbie questions about where to start collecting FFP/FFM for example will likely be vastly outnumbered by the 'award' queries.

We've had many loyalty programs for years so why weren't there more cross-program/alliance comparisons until fairly recently? IMHO because the proliferation of CC programs and card churning has made it easier for more people to earn while adding another layer of programs on top of the more establish ones like airline and hotel programs. This earnings shift has left lots of newcomers confused about which program awards work well in certain situations and why and so seek quick answers to help them decide but IMHO we should resist the reflex to want to provide answers but rather help those members find their own answers in one of the individual fora.

There are enough possibilities to compare airline programs both within, AC vs. SQ for example within Star Alliance, and between alliances, Oneworld vs. Star Alliance, in addition to hotel & CC loyalty programs that creating another forum to facilitate comparing half a dozen all at once is IMHO unnecessary and redundant.

While I normally don't compare IBB's as they are all different can't help note that MP doesn't have an award forum but does have a dedicated 'newbie' forum that serves as a friendly flame free starting point for new members, something I think we should emulate on FT. Sure there is the odd award queries posted in that space on MP but by not referring to it as such it hasn't become a focus of that forum.

Just MHO and YMMV.