HansGolden

Agreed.

Are you suggesting having this Wikipost in Hot Topics or in the each FFP forum?

In any case, my basic response is that you're using a hammer to do a saw's job. Yes, you could maintain a wiki with a list of links to threads, but that's what a forum is for. It's a living, breathing, updating based upon interest expressed through posts. Older stuff naturally sifts toward the bottom.

Given the volume of FFP-specific deals currently posted in MilesBuzz, I don't think this will cause any angst if implemented. I can't imagine more than 1 or 2 topics being hot deals in an FFP forum. (That was my guess, but I went to look to substantiate. Currently there are 2 AA topics and 1 UA topic on the front page of Milesbuzz.)

Wait, is this a serious suggestion or a joke/rhetorical point? You're not seriously suggesting 50 subforums of Hot Topics? They would have next to no traffic.

That IS organizing to move FFP-specific threads to their proper homes. As it is it's totally ambiguous whether a United mileage earning deal* should be placed in MilesBuzz or in the United forum. It falls under the aegis of both. It's not going to cause chaos or clutter to move threads discussing an FFP's deal to the FFP's forum. How is that clutter?

* Even though I'm adopting your "deal" language, the history of MilesBuzz posts and the wording of nsx's motion make it clear that deals are only a very small part of it.

ETA: I would like to also point out that this cross-threading only affects a small percentage of threads in MilesBuzz as evidenced by the fact that only 3/26 topics on the front page are FFP-specific. The vast majority of MB threads would stay fully within Hot Topics. However, I do invite you to come up with a criteria that would determine whether an FFP-based item (deval, deal, promo, etc) should be posted in Hot Topics or in the FFP forum. If we did it your way, how would you structure that?

I would suggest proposing that as a separate motion.

In all seriousness, OP posts (threads) make up 6.3% of the posts here on FT. MilesBuzz makes up 1.4% of the posts on FT. Are you seriously suggesting that an allowance that allows a 0.0882% increase in posts warrants a 100% increase in post requirements?

I'm not discounting your idea that we should increase the post requirements; perhaps we should, but I don't think allowing dupe threads between MilesBuzz and the FFP forum will move the needle on posting requirements.

kipper

A wiki would eliminate the concerns about cross-posting, and would mean that wouldn't need to be a motion.
If there are only 5 topics or so/page that would be moved, how does moving those really clean up MilesBuzz then?
It's a suggestion that if the airline specific topics are creating such chaos as to necessitate dramatically changing things, then why not have subforums? If subforums would barely see any use, then airline specific topics really aren't the problem.
It's going to add additional threads to already crazy forums at times, to reduce the chaos in one forum. If one room has a giant pile of manure and you want to clean up that room, you aren't going to take smaller piles of manure and place it into all the other rooms, are you? That is, to some extent, what I see this motion as doing, without really doing much, if anything, to address the root problem, which is, in my explanation, a giant pile of manure.
The description of MilesBuzz is, "Discussion of the latest frequent flyer & hotel program buzz...only" so perhaps you start by limiting it to that scope. Create a new forum, not a subforum, but a new forum, like what has been proposed, "InfoDesk" or something. That's where newbies can ask all of the questions about which is best, honeymoon planing, etc.

Leave MilesBuzz as a place to discuss hot deals, but with the discussion of them taking place in MilesBuzz.

I am suggesting that, if people are given the opportunity to cross-post and get away with it, they'll see that as an easy way to gain access to restricted forums.

HansGolden

I'm not sure where you got the idea that the portions dealing with the smooth functioning of Hot Topics/MilesBuzz is a cleanup. The only cleanup that is occurring is to split out all the newbie questions into the InfoDesk. In fact, what we're working to do with MilesBuzz is exactly what you suggest here:

That's EXACTLY what this motion does. It's the impetus behind the motion and it's the meat of the motion.

IIRC, MilesBuzz was a collection of four things, only one of which was covered by its charter/description:
1. MilesBuzz
2. Credit Card Signups
3. Manufactured Spending
4. Newbie questions

It was so bad, IIRC the CD took my campaign suggestion and unilaterally separated out Manufactured Spending. Credit Card-related discussion was also finally moved back to the credit card forum where it belonged.

Now we're down to #1 and #4. This motion separates the two into appropriate forums as they have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

That's the whole point of this motion: to return MilesBuzz to its description and charter.

In the process, we're looking to figure out how best to structure it because BY DEFINITION the description of MilesBuzz invites dupe or confused posting because many of its topics could correctly fit under the constituent FFP or under MilesBuzz. nsx's proposal works to get the best of both worlds.

However, if you have a better idea, we're all ears. Please remember as part of this idea, you must solve the problem of how we define what kind of deal/deval/news belongs in MB and what belongs in FFP forum. If you can give an easy to use, helpful definition of that distinction, God bless you. The TB would be very grateful. This is a problem we've been chewing on for weeks if not months. I'm not saying there's not a solution: I'd be delighted if there was; I'm just saying I haven't heard it yet.

ETA: The purpose of the name change from "MilesBuzz" to "Miles & Points Hot Topics" is because MB is ambiguous and we believe M&PHT is more clear. However, if you have a better name, we're all ears.

kipper

I can get behind creating a new forum for newbie questions.

I don't like the idea of openly allowing cross-posting. Why not try creating that forum, and then seeing how MilesBuzz (changed to Miles & Points Hot Topics) functions for a bit before doing anything else?

If you make one change at a time, it allows you to assess how things are going with those changes before making additional changes.

As far as what topics belong where, obviously, anything that includes multiple programs should be in MilesBuzz, and I'd lean towards topics that require product purchases, subscriptions, bank accounts, etc., should stay in MilesBuzz.

HansGolden

I do like that. (And I don't like the idea of duplication, though for different reasons than you; I don't like the messiness and uncertainty of it.) As you may or may not be aware, I'm a cashback/mileage mall guy (I've spoken about it at FTU and Chicago). Reselling stuff I buy retail is my main source of income. And I've believed (and perhaps said publicly, I forget) for a long time that we should have a forum focused on mileage malls here. Perhaps this dovetails with that vision and we should be more explicit about focusing MilesBuzz on mileage malls, among the other things you mentioned. I still remember back in the day MilesBuzz was the place where that kind of thing used to be posted. However, I'm guessing some of it has migrated to Manufactured Spending. Looks like some has gone to FFP forums: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html

HansGolden

I actually agreed with you, but then I looked it up. Oops. Here's the subtitle of the Destinations section: "Now that you've earned the miles, where should you go? Read about countries near and far. FlyerTalkers are sure to have traveled there, and can help you figure out how to make those travel dreams come true."

Kagehitokiri

- IB owns frugaltravelguy and FT. frugaltravelguy could link FT, like a "newbie" forum
- a "newbie" forum would be bridge for other blog readers (discussing content not bloggers) to move from there to FT
- IMHO a "newbie" forum could also be a "churn" forum, in other words "newbie/churn"
- as i said somewhere, there are people i would have referred to "newbie" forum, but FT doesnt have one yet.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ech-brand.html - i consolidated some of the TB/etc threads before apr 18 2013

tcook052

No, AFAIK there is no prohibition for non-program specific or multiple program award comparisons taking place within the destinations forums though of course they're meant for more general tourism focused queries.

MSPeconomist

Here's an attempt to delineate some criteria for the sort of threads and/or OPs that would be appropriate for crossposting in a redefined MilesBuzz/Miles and Points Hot Topics fourm as well as the airline/hotel specific fora.

We start from the presumption that most regular FT users follow the fora of their major programs fairly closely/frequently, fora associated with secondary programs less seriously but still with some regularity as well as when specific information is needed, and most other specific program fora not at all.

Given that, a question to ask before something is posted in the refurmulated MilesBuzz/Miles and Points Hot Topics forum would be whether someone who doesn't use a particular program (much) is likely to need the information or find it useful. Some specific characteristics of this sort of news would include the following:

--major new features that might cause people to change programs; significant reworking of the main principles of a program (switch from distance based to spend based)

--major devaluations (beyond the usual annual hotel category increases)

--innovative or creative new features that other programs might copy in the future

--new apparently permanent interlinkages between programs (recently, Delta and SPG or UA and Marriott)

--significant new joint ventures, bilateral partnerships or alliance memberships; mergers

--bankruptcies or major sales of assets

lin821

True, that's the wording for Destination Section, but it doesn't mean threads like, "I want to take my honey to Dreamspot flying 1st class on points/miles. Currently I have 5K pts in ABC airline. Please help me to make my fream vacation come true so my honey can be happy", to be discussion in the destination forum for "Dreamspot."

It may not hurt to get input from MODs in destination fora though.

MSPeconomist

To me, it seems natural to ask some schedule/routing questions in the destination fora for places that are hard to reach. One could ask what airlines serve MLE or alternatives to Katmandu versus avoiding the need for a transit visa for different connections, etc.

For the more typical destinations, no, unless perhaps in combination with airport terminals/lounges.

SkiAdcock

Just as a fyi, there is a motion underway regarding a new "Information Desk" forum. If it gets approved, I think some of the complaints MilesBuzz regulars have about newbie threads cluttering MB/changing its scope will disappear.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...esk-forum.html

Cheers.