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Defining the mission of MilesBuzz; Adding a Flame Free Q&A Forum?

Defining the mission of MilesBuzz; Adding a Flame Free Q&A Forum?

 

Old Sep 18, 13, 1:13 pm
  #151  
 
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Originally Posted by kipper View Post
If it's not creating a new forum, then it needs to be changed, as the post currently says, "Add a new "Information Desk" forum at the top of the list of forums, with the subtitle "New Member Q&A and Award Travel Advice", subject to revision over time by the Community Director as the best uses of the forum become more clear."
Agreed.

Originally Posted by kipper View Post
As far as cross-posting, what about having a wiki post, that is updated as new deals are added, etc.? That way, it's not cross-posting.
Are you suggesting having this Wikipost in Hot Topics or in the each FFP forum?

In any case, my basic response is that you're using a hammer to do a saw's job. Yes, you could maintain a wiki with a list of links to threads, but that's what a forum is for. It's a living, breathing, updating based upon interest expressed through posts. Older stuff naturally sifts toward the bottom.

Originally Posted by kipper View Post
I'm not suggesting banning things, I'm just saying that now, people who aren't interested in hot deals don't have to see it. If you change it, those who frequent the UA forum to find out about latest program changes, questions about if they can access the United Club, etc., don't have to see the hot deals.
Given the volume of FFP-specific deals currently posted in MilesBuzz, I don't think this will cause any angst if implemented. I can't imagine more than 1 or 2 topics being hot deals in an FFP forum. (That was my guess, but I went to look to substantiate. Currently there are 2 AA topics and 1 UA topic on the front page of Milesbuzz.)

Originally Posted by kipper View Post
Rather than see all of the hot deals threads moved into the specific airline forum, why not create subforums for the airlines in MilesBuzz, to try to organize the forum?
Wait, is this a serious suggestion or a joke/rhetorical point? You're not seriously suggesting 50 subforums of Hot Topics? They would have next to no traffic.

Originally Posted by kipper View Post
I don't see how dumping threads into existing forums is going to do much, other than make those forums more chaotic. If you're after organizing MilesBuzz, then organize it, but don't just dump things into other forums and say, "See, we cleaned up MilesBuzz." While you may have accomplished your mission in cleaning MilesBuzz (the kitchen), you've not really "cleaned" the kitchen, but rather, have simply scattered the dirt and pots and pans to all the other rooms of the FlyerTalk house.
That IS organizing to move FFP-specific threads to their proper homes. As it is it's totally ambiguous whether a United mileage earning deal* should be placed in MilesBuzz or in the United forum. It falls under the aegis of both. It's not going to cause chaos or clutter to move threads discussing an FFP's deal to the FFP's forum. How is that clutter?

* Even though I'm adopting your "deal" language, the history of MilesBuzz posts and the wording of nsx's motion make it clear that deals are only a very small part of it.

ETA: I would like to also point out that this cross-threading only affects a small percentage of threads in MilesBuzz as evidenced by the fact that only 3/26 topics on the front page are FFP-specific. The vast majority of MB threads would stay fully within Hot Topics. However, I do invite you to come up with a criteria that would determine whether an FFP-based item (deval, deal, promo, etc) should be posted in Hot Topics or in the FFP forum. If we did it your way, how would you structure that?

Originally Posted by kipper View Post
If cross-posting is allowed, then I'd like to see TalkBoard also increase the post count necessary to access CC and OMNI to 360 posts as a preventative measure. In light of one of the recent threads there, where a trade for 6 GPUs probably went bad, I'd think that if cross posting is allowed, it would be good to increase access requirements.
I would suggest proposing that as a separate motion.

In all seriousness, OP posts (threads) make up 6.3% of the posts here on FT. MilesBuzz makes up 1.4% of the posts on FT. Are you seriously suggesting that an allowance that allows a 0.0882% increase in posts warrants a 100% increase in post requirements?

I'm not discounting your idea that we should increase the post requirements; perhaps we should, but I don't think allowing dupe threads between MilesBuzz and the FFP forum will move the needle on posting requirements.

Last edited by HansGolden; Sep 18, 13 at 1:19 pm
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Old Sep 18, 13, 1:54 pm
  #152  
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Originally Posted by HansGolden View Post
Are you suggesting having this Wikipost in Hot Topics or in the each FFP forum?

In any case, my basic response is that you're using a hammer to do a saw's job. Yes, you could maintain a wiki with a list of links to threads, but that's what a forum is for. It's a living, breathing, updating based upon interest expressed through posts. Older stuff naturally sifts toward the bottom.
A wiki would eliminate the concerns about cross-posting, and would mean that wouldn't need to be a motion.
Originally Posted by HansGolden View Post
Given the volume of FFP-specific deals currently posted in MilesBuzz, I don't think this will cause any angst if implemented. I can't imagine more than 1 or 2 topics being hot deals in an FFP forum. (That was my guess, but I went to look to substantiate. Currently there are 2 AA topics and 1 UA topic on the front page of Milesbuzz.)
If there are only 5 topics or so/page that would be moved, how does moving those really clean up MilesBuzz then?
Originally Posted by HansGolden View Post
Wait, is this a serious suggestion or a joke/rhetorical point? You're not seriously suggesting 50 subforums of Hot Topics? They would have next to no traffic.
It's a suggestion that if the airline specific topics are creating such chaos as to necessitate dramatically changing things, then why not have subforums? If subforums would barely see any use, then airline specific topics really aren't the problem.
Originally Posted by HansGolden View Post
That IS organizing to move FFP-specific threads to their proper homes. As it is it's totally ambiguous whether a United mileage earning deal* should be placed in MilesBuzz or in the United forum. It falls under the aegis of both. It's not going to cause chaos or clutter to move threads discussing an FFP's deal to the FFP's forum. How is that clutter?

* Even though I'm adopting your "deal" language, the history of MilesBuzz posts and the wording of nsx's motion make it clear that deals are only a very small part of it.
It's going to add additional threads to already crazy forums at times, to reduce the chaos in one forum. If one room has a giant pile of manure and you want to clean up that room, you aren't going to take smaller piles of manure and place it into all the other rooms, are you? That is, to some extent, what I see this motion as doing, without really doing much, if anything, to address the root problem, which is, in my explanation, a giant pile of manure.
Originally Posted by HansGolden View Post
ETA: I would like to also point out that this cross-threading only affects a small percentage of threads in MilesBuzz as evidenced by the fact that only 3/26 topics on the front page are FFP-specific. The vast majority of MB threads would stay fully within Hot Topics. However, I do invite you to come up with a criteria that would determine whether an FFP-based item (deval, deal, promo, etc) should be posted in Hot Topics or in the FFP forum. If we did it your way, how would you structure that?

I would suggest proposing that as a separate motion.

In all seriousness, OP posts (threads) make up 6.3% of the posts here on FT. MilesBuzz makes up 1.4% of the posts on FT. Are you seriously suggesting that an allowance that allows a 0.0882% increase in posts warrants a 100% increase in post requirements?

I'm not discounting your idea that we should increase the post requirements; perhaps we should, but I don't think allowing dupe threads between MilesBuzz and the FFP forum will move the needle on posting requirements.
The description of MilesBuzz is, "Discussion of the latest frequent flyer & hotel program buzz...only" so perhaps you start by limiting it to that scope. Create a new forum, not a subforum, but a new forum, like what has been proposed, "InfoDesk" or something. That's where newbies can ask all of the questions about which is best, honeymoon planing, etc.

Leave MilesBuzz as a place to discuss hot deals, but with the discussion of them taking place in MilesBuzz.

I am suggesting that, if people are given the opportunity to cross-post and get away with it, they'll see that as an easy way to gain access to restricted forums.
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Old Sep 18, 13, 2:07 pm
  #153  
 
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Originally Posted by kipper View Post
If there are only 5 topics or so/page that would be moved, how does moving those really clean up MilesBuzz then?
I'm not sure where you got the idea that the portions dealing with the smooth functioning of Hot Topics/MilesBuzz is a cleanup. The only cleanup that is occurring is to split out all the newbie questions into the InfoDesk. In fact, what we're working to do with MilesBuzz is exactly what you suggest here:

Originally Posted by kipper View Post
The description of MilesBuzz is, "Discussion of the latest frequent flyer & hotel program buzz...only" so perhaps you start by limiting it to that scope. Create a new forum, not a subforum, but a new forum, like what has been proposed, "InfoDesk" or something. That's where newbies can ask all of the questions about which is best, honeymoon planing, etc.
That's EXACTLY what this motion does. It's the impetus behind the motion and it's the meat of the motion.

IIRC, MilesBuzz was a collection of four things, only one of which was covered by its charter/description:
1. MilesBuzz
2. Credit Card Signups
3. Manufactured Spending
4. Newbie questions

It was so bad, IIRC the CD took my campaign suggestion and unilaterally separated out Manufactured Spending. Credit Card-related discussion was also finally moved back to the credit card forum where it belonged.

Now we're down to #1 and #4. This motion separates the two into appropriate forums as they have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

That's the whole point of this motion: to return MilesBuzz to its description and charter.

In the process, we're looking to figure out how best to structure it because BY DEFINITION the description of MilesBuzz invites dupe or confused posting because many of its topics could correctly fit under the constituent FFP or under MilesBuzz. nsx's proposal works to get the best of both worlds.

However, if you have a better idea, we're all ears. Please remember as part of this idea, you must solve the problem of how we define what kind of deal/deval/news belongs in MB and what belongs in FFP forum. If you can give an easy to use, helpful definition of that distinction, God bless you. The TB would be very grateful. This is a problem we've been chewing on for weeks if not months. I'm not saying there's not a solution: I'd be delighted if there was; I'm just saying I haven't heard it yet.

ETA: The purpose of the name change from "MilesBuzz" to "Miles & Points Hot Topics" is because MB is ambiguous and we believe M&PHT is more clear. However, if you have a better name, we're all ears.
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Old Sep 18, 13, 2:36 pm
  #154  
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Originally Posted by HansGolden View Post
I'm not sure where you got the idea that the portions dealing with the smooth functioning of Hot Topics/MilesBuzz is a cleanup. The only cleanup that is occurring is to split out all the newbie questions into the InfoDesk. In fact, what we're working to do with MilesBuzz is exactly what you suggest here:

That's EXACTLY what this motion does. It's the impetus behind the motion and it's the meat of the motion.

IIRC, MilesBuzz was a collection of four things, only one of which was covered by its charter/description:
1. MilesBuzz
2. Credit Card Signups
3. Manufactured Spending
4. Newbie questions

It was so bad, IIRC the CD took my campaign suggestion and unilaterally separated out Manufactured Spending. Credit Card-related discussion was also finally moved back to the credit card forum where it belonged.

Now we're down to #1 and #4. This motion separates the two into appropriate forums as they have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

That's the whole point of this motion: to return MilesBuzz to its description and charter.

In the process, we're looking to figure out how best to structure it because BY DEFINITION the description of MilesBuzz invites dupe or confused posting because many of its topics could correctly fit under the constituent FFP or under MilesBuzz. nsx's proposal works to get the best of both worlds.

However, if you have a better idea, we're all ears. Please remember as part of this idea, you must solve the problem of how we define what kind of deal/deval/news belongs in MB and what belongs in FFP forum. If you can give an easy to use, helpful definition of that distinction, God bless you. The TB would be very grateful. This is a problem we've been chewing on for weeks if not months. I'm not saying there's not a solution: I'd be delighted if there was; I'm just saying I haven't heard it yet.

ETA: The purpose of the name change from "MilesBuzz" to "Miles & Points Hot Topics" is because MB is ambiguous and we believe M&PHT is more clear. However, if you have a better name, we're all ears.
I can get behind creating a new forum for newbie questions.

I don't like the idea of openly allowing cross-posting. Why not try creating that forum, and then seeing how MilesBuzz (changed to Miles & Points Hot Topics) functions for a bit before doing anything else?

If you make one change at a time, it allows you to assess how things are going with those changes before making additional changes.

As far as what topics belong where, obviously, anything that includes multiple programs should be in MilesBuzz, and I'd lean towards topics that require product purchases, subscriptions, bank accounts, etc., should stay in MilesBuzz.
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Old Sep 18, 13, 8:05 pm
  #155  
 
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Originally Posted by kipper View Post
As far as what topics belong where, obviously, anything that includes multiple programs should be in MilesBuzz, and I'd lean towards topics that require product purchases, subscriptions, bank accounts, etc., should stay in MilesBuzz.
I do like that. (And I don't like the idea of duplication, though for different reasons than you; I don't like the messiness and uncertainty of it.) As you may or may not be aware, I'm a cashback/mileage mall guy (I've spoken about it at FTU and Chicago). Reselling stuff I buy retail is my main source of income. And I've believed (and perhaps said publicly, I forget) for a long time that we should have a forum focused on mileage malls here. Perhaps this dovetails with that vision and we should be more explicit about focusing MilesBuzz on mileage malls, among the other things you mentioned. I still remember back in the day MilesBuzz was the place where that kind of thing used to be posted. However, I'm guessing some of it has migrated to Manufactured Spending. Looks like some has gone to FFP forums: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html
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Old Sep 18, 13, 8:06 pm
  #156  
 
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Originally Posted by lin821 View Post
No, they are not. Destination fora are not for award redemption discussion.

Thanks for the headsup, I just RBPed that thread so MODs can move it the the proper forum. Can't visit my usual corners of Asia as often due to my computer problem recently. FWIW, I've RBPed quite a number of threads "misplaced" in destination fora over the years when award redemption's involved. MODs generally move those out of destination fora.
I actually agreed with you, but then I looked it up. Oops. Here's the subtitle of the Destinations section: "Now that you've earned the miles, where should you go? Read about countries near and far. FlyerTalkers are sure to have traveled there, and can help you figure out how to make those travel dreams come true."
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Old Sep 18, 13, 8:57 pm
  #157  
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- IB owns frugaltravelguy and FT. frugaltravelguy could link FT, like a "newbie" forum
- a "newbie" forum would be bridge for other blog readers (discussing content not bloggers) to move from there to FT
- IMHO a "newbie" forum could also be a "churn" forum, in other words "newbie/churn"
- as i said somewhere, there are people i would have referred to "newbie" forum, but FT doesnt have one yet.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ech-brand.html - i consolidated some of the TB/etc threads before apr 18 2013
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Old Sep 18, 13, 10:12 pm
  #158  
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Originally Posted by HansGolden View Post
I actually agreed with you, but then I looked it up. Oops. Here's the subtitle of the Destinations section: "Now that you've earned the miles, where should you go? Read about countries near and far. FlyerTalkers are sure to have traveled there, and can help you figure out how to make those travel dreams come true."
No, AFAIK there is no prohibition for non-program specific or multiple program award comparisons taking place within the destinations forums though of course they're meant for more general tourism focused queries.
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Old Sep 19, 13, 6:31 pm
  #159  
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Here's an attempt to delineate some criteria for the sort of threads and/or OPs that would be appropriate for crossposting in a redefined MilesBuzz/Miles and Points Hot Topics fourm as well as the airline/hotel specific fora.

We start from the presumption that most regular FT users follow the fora of their major programs fairly closely/frequently, fora associated with secondary programs less seriously but still with some regularity as well as when specific information is needed, and most other specific program fora not at all.

Given that, a question to ask before something is posted in the refurmulated MilesBuzz/Miles and Points Hot Topics forum would be whether someone who doesn't use a particular program (much) is likely to need the information or find it useful. Some specific characteristics of this sort of news would include the following:

--major new features that might cause people to change programs; significant reworking of the main principles of a program (switch from distance based to spend based)

--major devaluations (beyond the usual annual hotel category increases)

--innovative or creative new features that other programs might copy in the future

--new apparently permanent interlinkages between programs (recently, Delta and SPG or UA and Marriott)

--significant new joint ventures, bilateral partnerships or alliance memberships; mergers

--bankruptcies or major sales of assets
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Old Sep 20, 13, 2:06 am
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Originally Posted by HansGolden View Post
Originally Posted by lin821 View Post
No, they are not. Destination fora are not for award redemption discussion.

Thanks for the headsup, I just RBPed that thread so MODs can move it the the proper forum. Can't visit my usual corners of Asia as often due to my computer problem recently. FWIW, I've RBPed quite a number of threads "misplaced" in destination fora over the years when award redemption's involved. MODs generally move those out of destination fora.
I actually agreed with you, but then I looked it up. Oops. Here's the subtitle of the Destinations section: "Now that you've earned the miles, where should you go? Read about countries near and far. FlyerTalkers are sure to have traveled there, and can help you figure out how to make those travel dreams come true."
True, that's the wording for Destination Section, but it doesn't mean threads like, "I want to take my honey to Dreamspot flying 1st class on points/miles. Currently I have 5K pts in ABC airline. Please help me to make my fream vacation come true so my honey can be happy", to be discussion in the destination forum for "Dreamspot."

It may not hurt to get input from MODs in destination fora though.
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Old Sep 20, 13, 8:52 am
  #161  
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To me, it seems natural to ask some schedule/routing questions in the destination fora for places that are hard to reach. One could ask what airlines serve MLE or alternatives to Katmandu versus avoiding the need for a transit visa for different connections, etc.

For the more typical destinations, no, unless perhaps in combination with airport terminals/lounges.
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Old Sep 27, 13, 4:38 pm
  #162  
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Just as a fyi, there is a motion underway regarding a new "Information Desk" forum. If it gets approved, I think some of the complaints MilesBuzz regulars have about newbie threads cluttering MB/changing its scope will disappear.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...esk-forum.html

Cheers.
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