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MOTION PASSED: Create a 'Points & Miles Blogs' Forum

MOTION PASSED: Create a 'Points & Miles Blogs' Forum

 
Old Apr 6, 13, 3:01 pm
  #91  
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
I believe that this request is a violation of the FT rules regarding respecting the privacy of others. Unless, of course, bloggers are considered company reps in which case the rules change.

Quite the sticky wicket, really.
Or unless as a FT member, they announce in their FT signature that they are the author:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/20538980-post5.html
Not really a sticky wicket if the member has chosen to publicly announce his connection with the blog.
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Old Apr 6, 13, 4:21 pm
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Jenbel View Post
Or unless as a FT member, they announce in their FT signature that they are the author:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/20538980-post5.html
Not really a sticky wicket if the member has chosen to publicly announce his connection with the blog.
Thanks. I was too lazy to figure out who it was.
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Old Apr 8, 13, 1:42 pm
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Jenbel View Post
Personally I'd say no. Because they are individuals who are blogging, not a company etc so they could only be representing theirself. We read their blogs, very few are PPV and we are consumers, not customers who need customer service.
I think that this double standard is going to create quite a bit of confusion and cause more troubles than the creation of the new forum might create. Either blogs are a business and their operators represent them or they are not a business. But letting the rules define them as sortof a business but not really is, IMO, asking for trouble.

Straddling the fence rarely works well. Pick a side and go with it.
Originally Posted by Jenbel View Post
With a blog, their readership is technically the product, and the buyer are the companies with affiliate links and the companies with advertising.
This is one view, I suppose, though I'd say that the written content is the product, the readers are the audience and the advertisers are a the same as they are for any other website. Surely you cannot say that the "product" for Orbitz is the people booking flights based on the fare data presented, right?
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Old Apr 8, 13, 5:37 pm
  #94  
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Huh. Interesting. I made an appeal for someone to change my mind. So far, no one has even responded to my post. I have not voted yet, and it is not yet clear which way this proposal will go, so mine very well could be the deciding vote. I'm leaning towards no unless someone in favor of it wants to try to address the points I brought up a few posts back.
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Old Apr 8, 13, 6:31 pm
  #95  
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Originally Posted by jackal View Post
Huh. Interesting. I made an appeal for someone to change my mind. So far, no one has even responded to my post. I have not voted yet, and it is not yet clear which way this proposal will go, so mine very well could be the deciding vote. I'm leaning towards no unless someone in favor of it wants to try to address the points I brought up a few posts back.
I plan to make up my mind Tuesday or Wednesday when I have time to think about it more. I wish koko had made this easier...

Anyway I will post my reasoning and give people a day to change my mind before I vote.
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Old Apr 8, 13, 7:05 pm
  #96  
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I too have been waiting to vote, hoping that some good arguments will emerge on either side. Please convince me!
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Old Apr 8, 13, 10:41 pm
  #97  
 
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No vote

Having read all of the posts on this thread, I think that this proposal invites trouble.
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Old Apr 9, 13, 5:08 am
  #98  
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
I think that this double standard is going to create quite a bit of confusion and cause more troubles than the creation of the new forum might create. Either blogs are a business and their operators represent them or they are not a business. But letting the rules define them as sortof a business but not really is, IMO, asking for trouble.

Straddling the fence rarely works well. Pick a side and go with it.
You could say the same of bloggers though. Blog or be on an IBB. Don't try and do both....

I don't feel I am straddling a fence. I see them as two different entities. Just because I set up a blog, post some affiliate links, and populate it with stuff I've read on an IBB, that does not a company make me. It makes me an individual with commercial interests.

And blogspam is an issue on a number of forums, where people try to use FT to push their blogs. It would make things very easy for mods if we had a 'thou shalt not post any links to blogs at all' rule. But since we often do allow that, because we recognise the symbiotic relationship, we should also get the chance to discuss those blogs which attempt to use us.
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Old Apr 9, 13, 7:10 am
  #99  
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Blogorama.

I'm sick to the back teeth with Blogs.....same content can be found in most miles/points Blogs. Can someone tell me why FT promotes links to such Blogs as The Gate/The Hub/The Lobby/The Tarmac.....what makes them so special?
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Old Apr 9, 13, 8:08 am
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Jenbel View Post
And blogspam is an issue on a number of forums, where people try to use FT to push their blogs.
Maybe a forum to which such posts could be moved would help the moderators and reduce the occurrence of shilling elsewhere on FT? Thoughts on that, anyone?

Originally Posted by HIDDY View Post
Blogorama.

I'm sick to the back teeth with Blogs.....same content can be found in most miles/points Blogs. Can someone tell me why FT promotes links to such Blogs as The Gate/The Hub/The Lobby/The Tarmac.....what makes them so special?
When Internet Brands promotes a blog on the home page of FlyerTalk, it's safe to presume that a close business relationship exists.
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Old Apr 9, 13, 8:37 am
  #101  
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Originally Posted by nsx View Post
Maybe a forum to which such posts could be moved... would reduce the occurrence of shilling elsewhere on FT?
Doubt it. I don't usually see posts that blatantly say hey come to my blog, it's great, etc, on FT. Those that do usually get deleted, edited, moved, already. There are FTers w/ something in their signature, but a separate forum isn't going to eliminate that. And when did we get into the 'let's create a forum so bloggers can shill there' business? FWIW - I don't think that's koko's intent.

I don't think a separate forum is needed for reasons stated earlier in the thread, and again this proposal isn't getting a lot of traction/wow we have to have it w/ FTers based on the lack of response by new posters on the thread (aka, individual posters who are providing input vs. the same folk posting repeatedly) & even w/ the ones who are new who posted, it's divided.

So if only a few are requesting it, is that enough reason to start a new forum? It hasn't been w/ other forums TB's been asked to consider. What is special about this one?

Cheers.
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Old Apr 9, 13, 8:38 am
  #102  
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Originally Posted by nsx View Post
Maybe a forum to which such posts could be moved would help the moderators and reduce the occurrence of shilling elsewhere on FT? Thoughts on that, anyone?

Yes, that is one of the many good reasons to create this forum.

To summarize:
  • Blogs are commercial ventures that offer a product/service to the points and miles hoarder community. As such, the commercial promotion should be segregated into its own forum just as the TravelTools commercial promotion was.
  • Blogs are not only here to stay, they are multiplying and becoming more and more of a go-to source for points and miles information and opportunities.
  • Blogs run the gamut from pure shills and con men to incredibly informative and insightful.
  • Blogs are a topic that FlyerTalkers want to talk about in terms of their relative merits, their business operations and their content, etc., etc.
  • Many FlyerTalkers prefer to talk about blogs here on FlyerTalk among other points and miles enthusiasts rather than in the comments sections of blogs among relative strangers.
  • Right now much of the BlogTalk takes place in a single mega-thread in MilesBuzz while other BlogTalk takes place in random corners of FlyerTalk spanning all the way from MilesBuzz down to OMNI.
  • If a FlyerTalker is not interested in BlogTalk, having it in its own forum makes it simple and convenient to avoid such talk.
  • The single argument raised against a BlogTalk forum is that it might get a little too personal and vitriolic against blog operators; an un-provable possible-terrible that could apply to the creation of any new forum and, if used as a reason to close forums, would lead to the immediate closing of the UNITED Mileage Plus forum.
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Old Apr 9, 13, 9:10 am
  #103  
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Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
  • The single argument raised against a BlogTalk forum is that it might get a little too personal and vitriolic against blog operators;
Actually that's not true. There have been multiple reasons given by multiple FTers posting in this & the other thread why they don't think a forum should be created; the possible vitriol (which has already occurred in an existing forum & which mia outlined rather eloquently) is only one of them, not the sole reason.

BTW - you make it sound as though FTers don't currently discuss blogs and/or have no place to do so, which isn't the case. And you've not really addressed nsx's former questions re: amount of traffic you think a new forum will generate/is it enough to actually sustain a forum.

Given there doesn't seem to be a groundswell of support/yes we have to have it from regular FTers, I really question if there will be. And the ones that have posted are mixed yes/no on the creation, so not a big clamoring for this beyond a few such as yourself who are very gung-ho about it.

So if there's not a ton of support for the forum, why should it be approved when others that didn't have a lot of support didn't even make it to motion stage and/or weren't approved if they did?

Ok, off to the convention center for me. Have a good day all.

Cheers.
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Old Apr 9, 13, 9:25 am
  #104  
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock View Post
Actually that's not true. There have been multiple reasons given by multiple FTers posting in this & the other thread why they don't think a forum should be created; the possible vitriol (which has already occurred in an existing forum & which mia outlined rather eloquently) is only one of them, not the sole reason.

BTW - you make it sound as though FTers don't currently discuss blogs and/or have no place to do so, which isn't the case. And you've not really addressed nsx's former questions re: amount of traffic you think a new forum will generate/is it enough to actually sustain a forum.

Given there doesn't seem to be a groundswell of support/yes we have to have it from regular FTers, I really question if there will be. And the ones that have posted are mixed yes/no on the creation, so not a big clamoring for this beyond a few such as yourself who are very gung-ho about it.

So if there's not a ton of support for the forum, why should it be approved when others that didn't have a lot of support didn't even make it to motion stage and/or weren't approved if they did?

Ok, off to the convention center for me. Have a good day all.

Cheers.
I apologize if I missed any other arguments against the new forum other than the possible-terribles of vitriol and/or lack of use.

If you'd care to summarize them that might help.

As for current BlogTalk, I feel as though I mentioned that two or three times in my summary.
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Old Apr 9, 13, 9:34 am
  #105  
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock View Post
Given there doesn't seem to be a groundswell of support/yes we have to have it from regular FTers, I really question if there will be. And the ones that have posted are mixed yes/no on the creation, so not a big clamoring for this beyond a few such as yourself who are very gung-ho about it.

So if there's not a ton of support for the forum, why should it be approved when others that didn't have a lot of support didn't even make it to motion stage and/or weren't approved if they did?
Agree. There have only been 2700+ views of the site-wide announcement on this motion that's been up for a while coupled with a small number of members actually debating it on this forum leading me to believe it's not as pressing a matter as the proponents would have us believe. Just MHO.
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