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MOTION PASSED: Create a 'Points & Miles Blogs' Forum

MOTION PASSED: Create a 'Points & Miles Blogs' Forum

 
Old Apr 5, 13, 3:54 pm
  #76  
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If I decide to become the public figure of a commercial website, I would fully expect some ad hominem attacks as part of the deal. I find it strange that there is a sense that operators of these sites should get some sort of protected status amidst their public presence. Will the same status also be granted to the various airline CEOs?

I also don't think it's accurate to look the Blogstand area on Milepoint, since that's really an aggregator.

Originally Posted by nsx View Post
What data can you gather to give any confidence that the new forum will be a success. Are we really limited to "try it and find out"?
I would like to hire the person that can provide definitive predictions regarding internet traffic. Think of all the time and money I'll save by not having to do A / B testing.



Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Ugh. Started a thread in MB with a specific question about blogs (having nothing to do with 'which one is most useful'), and that thread got the MegaThread treatment, thrown into the mega 'Which blog is most useful' thread on MilesBuzz where it was promptly lost and buried.
I clicked on your link and couldn't even find your post.

Like a lot of FTers, I use Google when looking for something here. I was looking for something regarding Marriott the other day, and found it on FT in a short thread through Google. I've never found anything that way in a megathread.
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Old Apr 5, 13, 4:36 pm
  #77  
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Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post
Like a lot of FTers, I use Google when looking for something here. I was looking for something regarding Marriott the other day, and found it on FT in a short thread through Google. I've never found anything that way in a megathread.
Actually, that's a good (if completely separate) point.

I often have to open Google search results on FT in "Incognito" mode. Why? My FT preferences are set to display 40 posts per page (as probably most power-user FTers have set), but the default FT setting--and that which Google indexes--is for 20 posts per page. Thus, opening a thread via Google when I'm logged into FT invariably does NOT dump me onto the page with the answer I was looking for. It is, as you note, especially difficult when dealing with a longer thread.

I wish I knew the solution to fixing all these little annoying daily problems with FT (not to mention the answer to the whole megathreading thing).
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Old Apr 5, 13, 6:26 pm
  #78  
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I just re-read the original thread. There were 99 posts (22 of them by koko ) w/ 24 individuals posting. Of the 24 it was basically even on yes/no. This thread has 77 posts (I'm excluding post 1, which is the announcement of the motion) & most of the posts are by the same people who posted in the other thread & have posted multiple times in this thread as well.

There are very few FTers posting that haven't already been heard from, and this is after a week of the public announcement. It should be noted that the few new posters are also about equally divided between yes/no.

Given the above I just don't think this forum is needed & that current forums can probably handle things as well.


On a dif note - Mia's post was a huge eye opener & I do think raises a concern about the same thing happening in the new forum.

Cheers.
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Old Apr 5, 13, 7:43 pm
  #79  
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock View Post
I just re-read the original thread. There were 99 posts (22 of them by koko ) w/ 24 individuals posting. Of the 24 it was basically even on yes/no. This thread has 77 posts (I'm excluding post 1, which is the announcement of the motion) & most of the posts are by the same people who posted in the other thread & have posted multiple times in this thread as well.

There are very few FTers posting that haven't already been heard from, and this is after a week of the public announcement. It should be noted that the few new posters are also about equally divided between yes/no.

Given the above I just don't think this forum is needed & that current forums can probably handle things as well.


On a dif note - Mia's post was a huge eye opener & I do think raises a concern about the same thing happening in the new forum.

Cheers.
So if you prevail and this forum is voted down, where, in your opinion, should discussion of points and miles blogs take place? In the mega-thread only? In MilesBuzz in multiple threads (not realistic because the mods there mega-thread all P&M blog discussion)? In some other forum? On another IBB?
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Old Apr 5, 13, 7:52 pm
  #80  
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Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
One of the blogs is covering the Talk Board vote:
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/milesf...yertalk-blogs/
And I posted this response:

Speaking for myself:

Itís not a requirement at all ó itís a suggestion, a recommendation. I have never once felt bound by someone filling out such a laundry list for me to consider whether a new forum is warranted or not warranted. You may have agreed to it. Past TalkBoards may have agreed to it. However, I have never agreed to it and I am not bound by any such agreements.

I was elected to TalkBoard to represent members of the FlyerTalk community at large and I do so by making proposals and voting on proposals according to my conscience and based on feedback from members and other members of TalkBoard.

Others may consider that list a requirement. I donít.

And I consider such a forum or subforum a vast improvement over the status quo, which appears to be a megathread in a place few could find.

---------------------

I voted yes.
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Old Apr 5, 13, 7:54 pm
  #81  
 
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Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
So if you prevail and this forum is voted down, where, in your opinion, should discussion of points and miles blogs take place? In the mega-thread only? In MilesBuzz in multiple threads (not realistic because the mods there mega-thread all P&M blog discussion)? In some other forum? On another IBB?
Given nothing new ever gets posted in the mega-thread, why not just keep it there?

Or you want a whole forum to vent yours and a handful of other posters frustration at bloggers???
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Old Apr 5, 13, 8:22 pm
  #82  
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
And I posted this response:

Speaking for myself:

It’s not a requirement at all — it’s a suggestion, a recommendation. I have never once felt bound by someone filling out such a laundry list for me to consider whether a new forum is warranted or not warranted. You may have agreed to it. Past TalkBoards may have agreed to it. However, I have never agreed to it and I am not bound by any such agreements.

I was elected to TalkBoard to represent members of the FlyerTalk community at large and I do so by making proposals and voting on proposals according to my conscience and based on feedback from members and other members of TalkBoard.

Others may consider that list a requirement. I don’t.
I don't think any of us feel "bound" to it.

But I'll reiterate the excellent point made by nsx not long ago, with some additional emphasis:

Originally Posted by nsx View Post
The forum creation criteria are not a "procedure". They are in effect a request that people proposing a forum do their homework first to maximize the prospects for a proposal. On several occasions the TalkBoard has had to do the homework ourselves. Sometimes the problem is that quantitative data is simply not obtainable.
Speaking for myself, when dealing with a subject with which I am unfamiliar, having these details makes it far easier for me to understand a proposal and make an educated decision when it comes time to vote.

I don't hold it against anyone when they don't fill out the questionnaire. The lack of a questionnaire, though, may simply mean that I may end up not throwing my weight behind a particular proposal because I don't know enough about it. Sometimes the answers to those questions come through additional discussion in TalkBoard Topics or elsewhere, but often, these seemingly-unsubstantiated proposals seem to fizzle and die when they might have had a chance at being heard with just a little more information.

That said, I have a feeling that koko is not going to let this proposal simply wither and die, so the lack of a completed questionnaire in this case is less of an issue than in other proposals, and as he has previously mentioned, most of the questions the questionnaire would answer have come out either in his various posts or general discussion here.

In any case, there's far too much meta-discussion in this thread about proper procedure. Let's get past that. It now remains to be decided by the TalkBoard whether this forum is something that will move FlyerTalk forward as being the best resource for frequent flyer program and other travel information.

I do see both sides' arguments, but I am not wholly convinced as of yet that this is both a necessary and a net-positive move for FlyerTalk. I share the same concerns that Sharon and others have posted previously: that it will both fail to gain critical mass (in the idea's current form) and also turn into a cesspool of vitriolic posts. So far, the proponents of the idea have failed to convince me that my concerns are unfounded.

Perhaps the idea itself needs to be revisited and the scope broadened to ensure the forum is able to sustain broad and positive discussion. The idea of merging it with Travel News has been bandied about previously. I'm wondering if something along the lines of "Travel Information Sources Reviews and Discussion" (someone please clean that idea of a title up) would be a broad enough topic to sustain interest--not just to discuss blogs but other travel information sources, too--the Dog, The Flight Deal, TripAdvisor, etc. Limiting the scope to just blogs seems to be not enough potential content (I think some here are vastly overestimating the number of people who care enough about commenting here versus on the blogger's own site) for a good discussion forum.

My current musings, anyway. I await being convinced otherwise.
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Old Apr 5, 13, 8:49 pm
  #83  
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Originally Posted by ma91pmh View Post
Given nothing new ever gets posted in the mega-thread, why not just keep it there?

Or you want a whole forum to vent yours and a handful of other posters frustration at bloggers???
I do have some frustrations with some blogs. Others not so much. Some I read every day and love.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a P&M blogs forum so we can discuss which fit into each category?
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Old Apr 5, 13, 9:24 pm
  #84  
 
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My voice or opinion wouldn't count for much here, but I thought I'd give it anyway.

I think creating a new forum is a terrible idea.

An excellent example of how an idea can be turned, mutilated, abused and made rotten is already there.
Re-read the current thread (Which is the most useful frequent flyer blog?).
The ratio of comments that actually discuss the aforementioned question, to the comments that just spew hateful vitriol is so unbalanced that it's absurd.

I subscribed to that thread a long time ago. I then deleted the subscription and then resubscribed. But unfortunately, everytime I visit that thread, it's the same thing.
The same hate. Every day.

Now, I'm not saying that atleast some of that hate is undeserved. I am as tired of seeing posts with 20 affiliate links, as the people on that thread...BUT my point is that we've ALREADY estabilished ALL that needed to be estabilished.

Here's what's going to happen if a new forum is created: Hate shall run amok.
What purpose does that serve?

Heck, I can BET, that given the time, we could come up with a WIKI, that had all the information you need.
Which blogger has too many affiliate links.
Which blogger has excellent content.
Which blogger has too much spoon-feeding.
Why create a new FORUM?

Let's create an atmosphere that is fun and educational, where we discuss and learn new things each day.
Let's not worry about the blogs.
Enough.
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Old Apr 5, 13, 9:38 pm
  #85  
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Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Who is that blogger?
I believe that this request is a violation of the FT rules regarding respecting the privacy of others. Unless, of course, bloggers are considered company reps in which case the rules change.

Quite the sticky wicket, really.
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Old Apr 5, 13, 10:37 pm
  #86  
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Although I like the idea,
I don't care whether this proposal sinks or floats. So my comments are not meant to lean people one way or another.

I respect mia's reply. I sympathize with his comments because they are an accurate reflection of many parts of FT. This however is a deeper problem of the inmates running the zoo, and cannot in any way be isolated as an issue of blog threads. It's indicative of a problem we are not allowed to address, and those that can, refuse to.

Back to Blog Threads. The question remains whether a forum is warranted or not.

However, the real issue is that FT has evolved to a point where not everything fits in the current categories. MilesBuzz! and TravelBuzz! are not dumping grounds for threads that another forum doesn't want. Do we need to again re-assess need for new categories based on current needs? Again, I don't have the answer.

I feel it's wrong to point fingers, asking for change without offering to help too. As someone who would like to see FT evolve to become better, I am also willing to help if anyone needs a researcher, sub-commitee volunteer, or whatever. I am not willing to moderate, but available in any other capacity to assist the member and policy/decision makers.

regards...
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Old Apr 5, 13, 10:58 pm
  #87  
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where will we be in 30, 60, 90 days on this topic?

Originally Posted by seanthepilot View Post
However, the real issue is that FT has evolved to a point where not everything fits in the current categories. MilesBuzz! and TravelBuzz! are not dumping grounds for threads that another forum doesn't want. Do we need to again re-assess need for new categories based on current needs? Again, I don't have the answer.
It's good the have the topic out there, though, even though there may not not be a new forum when the vote is over. That will push it into the moderators court to deal with in those specific forums. If they tire of blog-related megathreads or moderation of blog-related material, they'll need to make the next move, and that could include coming back to Talk Board asking for a blog forum at some point down the line. They already have the tools to deal with disruptive posters .

It's sad we don't have a higher level of member participation discussing this topic. If we changed it to OMNI post count or a contest thread we could probably get a couple hundred FTers expressing their opinions pretty quickly.
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Old Apr 5, 13, 11:21 pm
  #88  
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Originally Posted by jatink129 View Post
The ratio of comments that actually discuss the aforementioned question, to the comments that just spew hateful vitriol is so unbalanced that it's absurd.

I subscribed to that thread a long time ago. I then deleted the subscription and then resubscribed. But unfortunately, everytime I visit that thread, it's the same thing.
The same hate. Every day.

Hate shall run amok.
What purpose does that serve?
Hate is terrible, right?
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Old Apr 6, 13, 12:19 pm
  #89  
 
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[QUOTE=kipper;20503047][*]Bloggers will be self-promoting their blogs, turning it into a commercial forum. I can see anything from, "See my blog for details on..." to, "Please visit my blog," etc. There's enough of the blogger self-promotion in signatures and such.
[QUOTE]
as a relatively new member, I value the actual experience of members; and can then find blogs with analytics elsewhere. If the TOS indicated the blogger content had to be substantially available on FT, I see a blog forum as a handy place to consolidate research. If all we get is a series of teases and redirects, this would diminish the 'community' aspect of FT.
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Old Apr 6, 13, 2:56 pm
  #90  
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If I decide to become the public figure of a commercial website, I would fully expect some ad hominem attacks as part of the deal. I find it strange that there is a sense that operators of these sites should get some sort of protected status amidst their public presence. Will the same status also be granted to the various airline CEOs?
It is ironic, given mia's comments about questioning of motives, yet one of the bloggers has already questioned some of the TB member's motives for this. Treat others as you want to be treated perhaps?
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