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MOTION PASSED: Create a 'Points & Miles Blogs' Forum

MOTION PASSED: Create a 'Points & Miles Blogs' Forum

 
Old Mar 30, 13, 8:40 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock View Post
is there enough of a need/will there be enough traffic to justify a whole new forum? I'm thinking no.
Sure there will be! If you give the agents provocateur their own playground, they'll go wild!

At least until the blog basing thing gets boring. Right now they have a thread in MilesBuzz.

Just think what would be possible if all of the snark, all of the nastiness, all of the jealousies (the comments about different bloggers' sexual orientation, the comments about other bloggers' wives-in-bikinis, the impugning of bloggers' motives rather than taking on their arguments, the speculations about their individual personal finnces)... if it were all given its own forum. That would be awesome!! At least if by awesome we mean 'pathetic'.

If Flyertalk needs a forum to discuss blogs, then Flyertak will truly have jumped the shark.
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Old Mar 30, 13, 8:47 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by FlyFasterFlyFarther View Post
Sure there will be! If you give the agents provocateur their own playground, they'll go wild!

At least until the blog basing thing gets boring. Right now they have a thread in MilesBuzz.

Just think what would be possible if all of the snark, all of the nastiness, all of the jealousies (the comments about different bloggers' sexual orientation, the comments about other bloggers' wives-in-bikinis, the impugning of bloggers' motives rather than taking on their arguments, the speculations about their individual personal finnces)... if it were all given its own forum. That would be awesome!! At least if by awesome we mean 'pathetic'.

If Flyertalk needs a forum to discuss blogs, then Flyertak will truly have jumped the shark.
Really? Why?

30 of your 47 posts have been about blogs/bloggers or comments about the discussion of blogs / bloggers. Apparently such things are of interest to you.
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Old Mar 30, 13, 8:56 am
  #18  
 
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Yes they are of interest, and I have a place to discuss them if I wish now, but have you visited that thread recently? It's been a debate between posters and the moderators over what is acceptable, given the nastiness. Though hopefully my posts have been mostly reasonable compared to some (I have been warned once for my criticisms of bloggers too and had a post removed).
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Old Mar 30, 13, 10:52 am
  #19  
 
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FlyerTalk is going downhill quick if blogger bashing is a forum.
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Old Mar 30, 13, 10:57 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by travelisfree View Post
FlyerTalk is going downhill quick if blogger bashing is a forum.
People bash airline FFP all the time and nobody's wringing their hands over that.

I don't get why discussion of blogs -- which are businesses for many of the bloggers -- should be off limits.

Is it because we *like* the bloggers or because the bloggers are members of FT? Someone 'splain to me the difference between bashing a referral link in a blog and bashing the latest FFP enhancement.

And for many, "bashing" is "discussing."
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Old Mar 30, 13, 11:57 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock View Post
Then in that case why is a new forum needed at all? If you consider them commercial ventures such as the commercial travel tools providers, then the the discussions should go in the Travel Tools forum; no need for a new forum.

Most bloggers talk about credit card churn (Milesbuzz) or individual programs (car, hotel, air, credit card forums), & generic travel discussion by them would go in Travelbuzz, so I am still not convinced there is enough of a need to create a separate forum for them.

I also have legitimate concerns about the blogger bashing & nastiness that's been experienced in Milesbuzz being given a new venue.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...light=bloggers
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...light=bloggers
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...light=bloggers

A # of blogs are still hobbies for people, but my guess is your intent is to focus on the 3-6 that are more of a commercial nature. Is that enough to justify a new forum? Right now, given that there are current forums available such as Travel Tools, Milesbuzz, Travelbuzz & car, hotel, air, credit card forums, I would say no.

I'm leaning against this.

Cheers.
This seems to suggest that discussions about blogs are scattered around a large number of fora on FT. It would be useful to concentrate this information because, for instance, a blogger could provide inaccurate information once about an airline FF program, but it's useful to know that the same
blogger has given incorrect information at different times recently about many FF programs.

For the record, I'm currently undecided.
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Old Mar 30, 13, 12:32 pm
  #22  
 
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Two cents from a newbie

Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
I would never see Travel Tools in a forum list and think that discussion on blogs would be in that particular place.

To me, in a perfect world, a Travel Tools subforum would cover tools like EF and KVS and there's be another subforum that would cover blogs.

Both of these subforums would be under a Commercial Posts forum/banner and that's where all the members trying to sell something would be expected to do so. And yes, that should include signatures with referral links.

If you can't tell, I'm leaning yes although I'm not sure the motion goes far enough.
I am new to Flyertalk, and to the serious accumulating of points/miles in general, and found the thread that prompted this motion to be quite helpful as I try to sort out the many blogs that offer advice. They have similar names and as I usually read them in my email, I do not often see the banner/design/colors the blogger uses on his or her site, so they tend to blur - I know I got advice from a blog but whether it was Mommy Points or Deal Mommy, Loyalty Lobby or Loyalty Traveler tends to be pretty fuzzy sometimes.

For me, "What is the most useful frequent flyer blog" was quite helpful. I contributed a few posts attempting to stick to the topic in a constructive way. My intent was not to bash or criticize anyone personally, but to share my personal evaluation with others who have been kind about answering some of my questions in these forums. I also hoped, perhaps naively, that bloggers would benefit, assuming they strive to write in ways that are most useful to their readers.

While I am completely supportive of civil and courteous dialogue, and can certainly do without the nastiness that surfaced on occasion, the forthright back and forth on the thread also taught me a lot of which bloggers to follow as I learned who did it full time, who has a staff, who tends to push affiliate links that are not the best deals, etc.

Frankly I do not care that much about or fully understand the nuances re: what content belongs where according to FT rules, but I urge the board to allow FT members to have some place where we can comment on the usefulness of blogs.

Finally, I do not mind the taglines with links to blogs and urge you not to prohibit them in any thread. They too help me evaluate the advice offered, as I can more easily determine if it comes from a blogger or not. And when a member's user name differs from his or her blog name, it helps me connect the poster to what else he or she may write that I read regularly, or have read in the past, or should consider following.

Thank you.

Last edited by TWA44; Mar 30, 13 at 12:37 pm Reason: fix typo
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Old Mar 30, 13, 2:47 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by FlyFasterFlyFarther View Post
(a) lead to even greater nastiness, something Flyertalk does not need and has been taking great efforts to reduce, or
Have you seen evidence of that effort described here? I haven't.

Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Folks heap criticism on UA while UA Insider watches on. Hell, I *wish* Smisek were a member of FlyerTalk so I could tell him to his 'face' what I think of his decisions with regard to the business he runs.
But were he a member would "$mi/J" and all the other talk about him be permitted? Where is the line drawn between the member and the business? Especially considering that many of these bloggers are the only or most visible "employee" of the business? Do all bloggers now get their names turned green as commercial service providers? Are they similarly exempted from some of the other rules like strict restrictions against commercial posting?

Put another way, by virtue of the fact that a blogger is theoretically a "management employee" of their blog are they no longer protected by the rule:
With the exception of public figures, do not post names, addresses, phone numbers or e-mails of other FlyerTalk members. This information will be removed by moderators. Respect the privacy of non-management travel service employees by not referring to them by name.
Are bloggers inherently "public figures" even as many of them do not share their personal details as part of their site?

Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Once a FlyerTalker enters the world of points and miles commerce, they open their business and business decisions up to full and open discussion about the business they run.
I suppose this is the crux of the decision. Is every blog a business? Who decides which are and which are not?


Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
I would never see Travel Tools in a forum list and think that discussion on blogs would be in that particular place.

To me, in a perfect world, a Travel Tools subforum would cover tools like EF and KVS and there's be another subforum that would cover blogs.

Both of these subforums would be under a Commercial Posts forum/banner and that's where all the members trying to sell something would be expected to do so. And yes, that should include signatures with referral links.
But do you naturally think of bogs as commercial ventures? Is that where you would go to look for them? I'm not sure most people would, though I think that treating different types of commercial ventures differently leads to a mess here.
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Old Mar 30, 13, 4:12 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
People bash airline FFP all the time and nobody's wringing their hands over that.

I don't get why discussion of blogs -- which are businesses for many of the bloggers -- should be off limits.

Is it because we *like* the bloggers or because the bloggers are members of FT? Someone 'splain to me the difference between bashing a referral link in a blog and bashing the latest FFP enhancement.

And for many, "bashing" is "discussing."
It gets nasty and without productivity. The same things get said every time. The reality is that bloggers discus what gets talked about on FT. To have a forum discussing them would be irony.

FT topics -> Blogger topics -> FT topics ... and around we go.
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Old Mar 31, 13, 12:43 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock View Post
A # of blogs are still hobbies for people, but my guess is your intent is to focus on the 3-6 that are more of a commercial nature. Is that enough to justify a new forum? Right now, given that there are current forums available such as Travel Tools, Milesbuzz, Travelbuzz & car, hotel, air, credit card forums, I would say no.



Cheers.
I used to think that only a few blogs were run like businesses meant to make money, and that most were a hobby.

After scratching the surface of the current points and miles blogosphere, I realized how naive I had been.

Most of the points and miles blogs are set up to make money or otherwise benefit the blog owner through credit card affiliate programs, google ads, free travel, etc.

Read the existing threads on blogs. I think you will find it an eye-opening experience. It certainly was for me.

And I don't think they belong in Travel Tools, because blogs are not tools in the way software or booking engines are. They are more akin to news outlets. But at your suggestion, I did not make this motion to include blogs with other news outlets because of your concern about diluting the Travel News forum.

And I do think blogs are a unique enough commercial venture...specific to points and miles (the exact charter of FlyerTalk) and directed at FlyerTalkers to be their customers...to warrant their own forum.
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Old Mar 31, 13, 8:17 pm
  #26  
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(blogs that dont have credit card referrals arent necessarily all about money)

this would be another good forum that will clean up some other forums IMHO

some previous thoughts (and related prior discussions / threads) >
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri View Post
(in http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ech-brand.html which opened with quote of SanDiego1K in http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...talkboard.html raising some issues on this topic)

--

other - id still (agree) re considering a churn forum for technical discussion and all credit card signup bonses >
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri View Post
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...urn-forum.html
CC churn/etc forum would mainly be an organizational change
"cleaning" milesbuzz (currently 11 of first 25 threads are CC)
as well as moving any and all threads from other forums into one single forum
* additionally it could act as a transition forum for new members who are coming from blogs/etc
also maybe have discussion subforum like mileage run deals [did more recently] - for technical, help, etc
2 - one or two forums

Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Mar 31, 13 at 8:23 pm
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Old Mar 31, 13, 11:35 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
Are bloggers inherently "public figures" even as many of them do not share their personal details as part of their site?
I tend to have the opinion if a blogger requests to have their Flyertalk name to match their blog they've made a decision to become a public figure. They are no different then Starwood putting a Lurker on to address feedback.

My question is if bloggers have their own dedicated threads, are we going to see the same thing that is allowed for larger companies? I see threads created by companies for the sole purpose of announcing their currently quarterly promotions for marketing. Would a travel blogging section allow for the same type of activities? It seems only fair if they have their own dedicated section as they are recognized as small businesses or part of a larger company.
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Old Apr 1, 13, 3:19 am
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by Astrophsx View Post
My question is if bloggers have their own dedicated threads, are we going to see the same thing that is allowed for larger companies? I see threads created by companies for the sole purpose of announcing their currently quarterly promotions for marketing. Would a travel blogging section allow for the same type of activities? It seems only fair if they have their own dedicated section as they are recognized as small businesses or part of a larger company.
Let's take the question one step further: if blogs have a forum, and bloggers can participate in promotion of their sites, what about bloggers who are direct competitors of Flyertalk? Does this forum legitimize coming here to discuss their blog's work with events (Frequent Traveler University) and even forums (Milepoint)?

It's hard to imagine how that wouldn't be appropriate in such a forum. And yet there's been a decent bit of hand wringing over the idea that some people could promote competitor sites/products here on Flyertalk.
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Old Apr 1, 13, 6:34 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by FlyFasterFlyFarther View Post
Let's take the question one step further: if blogs have a forum, and bloggers can participate in promotion of their sites, what about bloggers who are direct competitors of Flyertalk? Does this forum legitimize coming here to discuss their blog's work with events (Frequent Traveler University) and even forums (Milepoint)?

It's hard to imagine how that wouldn't be appropriate in such a forum. And yet there's been a decent bit of hand wringing over the idea that some people could promote competitor sites/products here on Flyertalk.
Those things ARE discussed on FlyerTalk. Gary's blog is much-discussed in the various threads about blogs. And the FTEF (the company behind the FTUs which is owned by the Milepoint Boys) is the subject of a rather long thread in OMNI (although as a newish member of FlyerTalk you may not have OMNI access yet...assuming, of course, FlyFasterFlyFarther is your first FT handle).

FlyerTalk should, imho, be about ALL things points and miles. And organized in a manner meant to allow efficient discussion.
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Old Apr 1, 13, 7:22 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Those things ARE discussed on FlyerTalk. Gary's blog is much-discussed in the various threads about blogs. And the FTEF (the company behind the FTUs which is owned by the Milepoint Boys) is the subject of a rather long thread in OMNI
My point isn't whether others might discuss a blog, or even if Gary might come on and discuss his own.

Rather, Gary and through his blog is working to promote Frequent Traveler University (a community event for Flyertalk competitor Milepoint and which I suppose competes with the Chicago Seminar, run by ingy whose blog is owned by Internet Brands). And the MegaDOs. And links to Milepoint itself.

Discussing his blog, in such a forum presumably Gary would be welcome to say "I've just posted on my blog all of the great stuff going on at Milepoint."

Currently that would be spammy, commercial advertising right?

But if we treat the blog just like a travel provider, giving blogs their own forums, that would be license to do it, wouldn't it?

You're comfortable with that?

assuming, of course, FlyFasterFlyFarther is your first FT handle).
It is, though I'm a long-time lurker coaxed into getting involved by a couple of veterans of these boards.
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