hobo13

At the suggestion of kokonutz....

I propose that FT create a forum dedicated to the discussion of bloggers. This could consist of a separate thread dedicated to each blog, or even a sub-forum dedicated to each blog such that a new thread can be started for each post the blogger makes.

The benefits of this as I see them to the FT community:
1. I like to discuss with friends, not a bunch of anons, or worse, anons masquerading as my FT friends.
2. I like to discuss in a neutrally-moderated environment. Many bloggers delete any comment that does not praise them.
3. I like to be able to edit my posts.
4. I like to contribute to the FT community.


The benefits to IB:
1. I can only assume that blogs are prying more and more eyeballs away from FT. The miles and points space is continually evolving, and FT seems slow to adapt. I think this would slow the exodus.

Downsides:
1. This has the potential to be a moderation challenge.
2. Some very loud bloggers will not like the fact that they can be discussed in an environment which they do not control. Accusations of libel and slander will abound. Legal action will be threatened. However, once a blogger turns pro, we are really discussing a business no different than we discuss United or Delta.

kokonutz

As hobo says, I sent him here from MilesBuzz to make this suggestion after he suggested it there.

And I like it.

For all the reasons hobo says:

Let's talk about the bloggers here, not on their blogs.

Let's decide how useful the info is and where it came from here, not there.

Let's talk about and expand upon their suggestions here, not there.

Most of the info posted in blogs comes from FlyerTalk in the first place, so it only seems natural and fitting that it come BACK here to be discussed. @:-)^

Open to ideas in terms of structure, but I am thinking just a Points and Miles Blogger forum with threads for blogs or blog posts makes good sense. Keep it loose.

The ONLY downside I could see is that if, for example, a blogger posts about a manufactured spend topic, it might duplicate a thread in manufactured spending about the same topic. But that is easily solved by posters placing a link to that conversation.

In fact, it might even become a fun pastime: find and link to the thread that the blogger data-mined his or her blog post from! ^

Mary2e

On it's face, I think it's a good idea.

The other side of that coin is that it may turn into a blogger-basher forum.

But actually, I find those threads amusing, and would probably read a blogger forum to get a good laugh. I so wish we had an "eating popcorn" emoticon

But I agree that getting those type threads out of Miles Buzz is a good idea, as is having a specific place to discuss all of them - very much like the Travel Tools forum which has become very good and quite valuable.

lo2e

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not very familiar with blogs and their role in travel/miles & points/etc., but what topics are discussed on blogs that don't already have a home here on FlyerTalk? Or would the idea of such a forum be to discuss the blog (and it's owner(s), contributor(s), etc.) and not the content of the blog posts?

tcook052

IMHO discussing an individuals blog and what many may view as a gigantic, faceless global corporation very different things and could forsee a very contentious and adversarial atmosphere that could turn toxic more often than not if a blogger feels their livelihood under threat.

What about the bloggers that are here? Would we be allowed to discuss those FTers who do run their own blogs but also particpate in FT? That doesn't serve to foster a "community" atmosphere if some members are singled out for public debate in such a fashion.

Where would the "blogger" line be drawn? How could you, for example, distinguish between those that may do it on a part-time basis and those that make a living from it?

There are IMHO too many cons and not enough pros to create such a forum though that is merely MHO and YMMV.

hobo13

That's actually the point -- the content of the blogs mostly comes from FT. But more and more of the discussion ends up on the blog. It's not uncommon to see a single blog with more comments on a topic than the original thread on FT! That's scary, and it's a problem for FT / IB's future.

There is also a need to discuss HOW information on the blogs is conveyed. It's not possible to do that on the blog owner's site, because if they don't like your comment, they just delete it. I think that in some small way, we might (MIGHT) bring some added accountability to the blogs if we have an open discussion here on FT about their practices. Think of it as the 'Better Blogger Bureau'. We could even have assign ratings based on how FTers perceive their ethics and business practices.

Face it -- blogs are here to stay (at least as long as affiliate CC income continues). I believe it caught FT / IB flat-footed and are clearly playing catch up. This is an attempt to compete.

hobo13

FTG and TPG are both LLC's, right? Those two plus Milevalue have a staff, and are no longer just individuals. Thanks to the safety video, United is no longer a faceless corporation -- I could pick Jeffy Jeff out of a crowd faster than most movie stars! Plus, those faceless corporations are starting to send reps to FT and host DO's to become more personable. I don't think this line is as bright as you think it is.

Contentious atmosphere? Don't we have that already?!?

Livelihood under threat? Isn't the FT / IB livelihood under threat? Have you seen how many comments some of these bloggers get? I'm just waiting for the day that they throw up a forum on their blog! I'm not joking. The software to run a BB is opensource and pretty easy to set up.

And if they see it as a threat to their livelihood, so be it. I would say that part of the point is to bring some accountability to the blogs. If the FT community is critical of a blogger for posting suboptimal CC links, maybe the blogger changes his practices. Isn't there some quote about 'being the change you want to see in the world?'

hobo13

And as I told Kokonutz, I don't really care if FT/IB takes this suggestion or not. Ironically, if FT / IB doesn't, I'll just go visit another blog that wants to foster this kind of meta-blogger discussion -- TravelBloggerBuzz.

In my mind, gpapadop has demonstrated that the need exists for a place to discuss other blogs. I imagine he started his blog because FT wasn't meeting that need. Simple as that.

I'm not even sure why I'm proposing this -- it's really free strategy consulting to FT / IB. If they can't see that their business is changing by the day and that they run the risk of getting marginalized, so be it. I should probably just go start my own blog -- and truth be told I had considered something akin to what gpapadop is doing, but never found the time. (I think his kids are older than mine, and as such he has 15 minutes more per day to spend on it, LOL!)

MSPeconomist

Who is gpapadop? Am I missing a link to some website?

tcook052

It seems we do whenever the topic of blogs and/or bloggers comes up and after much sniping and griping the threads on MilesBuzz are closed, as happened here and here, so why expect a whole forum to be any different?

hobo13

Travel Blogger Buzz

Which is run by: gpapadop

I should not have used his real name. Please edit that out of your post to comply with ToS.

SkiAdcock

Have to agree w/ the above. I wouldn't be supportive of this.

Cheers.

hobo13

I'm not claiming it will be any different. I'm claiming that the landscape is changing, and FT / IB needs to adapt. Maybe this forum should be a subset of OMNI, so it can have relaxed rules? OMNI / Blogger Buzz?

Then again, I have never posted in OMNI, so I'd have to change my posting rules, LOL!

FlyFasterFlyFarther

There so much animosity in the blogger threads in MilesBuzz, what could possibly go wrong by creating a whole forum for it? @:-)

kokonutz

Another great reason for this forum: to segregate the blogger-talk out of MB and into its own forum. @:-)@:-)


IMHO, hobo has nailed this one: we are seeing a major paradigm shift as it seems like every other FTer is now a blogger. The beauty of FT is that although many competitor IBBs have come and gone, it remains the repository of points and miles information and conversation. As more and more and more bloggers diversify their input and analysis the conversation gets more and more dispersed.

This suggestion is an attempt to re-close the circle and bring the information and conversation back to FT even as the bloggers siphon the information and conversation away from here.

Bloggers seek to monetize the information that FT provides just like the seminars seek to monetize the FlyerTalk 'Do' phenomenon, just like KVS/ExpertFlyers seeks to monetize award/upgrade space availability seeking.

As such, they are service providers to frequent flyers and point collectors and certainly not above criticism every bit as much as UNITED, Hilton and IB are service providers to frequent flyers and point collectors and certainly not above criticism. And just because IB Tony or UA Insider or Starwood Lurker are posters here does not mean we should not criticize IB or UNITED or Starwood.

Can anyone tell me: what are the good blogs? What are the bad blogs? What blog consistently has great ideas? What blog consistently pumps affiliates? Where do we talk about these types of points and miles service providers?

I submit that the answer is: here on FlyerTalk in a forum dedicated to these service providers.

Just because there is a face or name associated with the business does not mean it is not a business providing a service.