mia

This thread was split off from one in MilesBuzz! which remains open.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...lyer-blog.html

The MilesBuzz! moderators think that FlyerTalk member attitude toward new members is a worthwhile topic, but distinct from the topic of this thread, and not best discussed in a Miles & Points forum. The Community Director suggested moving it to TalkBoard Topics.



For reference, there have been two other discussions of bloggers. These threads are closed because the discussions degenerated.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...flyertalk.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...-take-2-a.html

ingy

This response is a perfect example of much of the current FT thinking and is finally being alluded to in this thread. The post had no value to YOU personally which I will gladly agree with. It had value to a newbie who has little knowledge of the SPG program. More and more I am concentrating my efforts on newbie material as are the other blogs. You guys all know this stuff and make it damn clear you hate the repetition of material. Frequent Miler is different blog as he is providing new info to the majority of us, not just the newbie.

And with the current attitude displayed by many on FT of hostility and snarkyness, many newbies have moved to blogs for information instead of stepping into the lions den. I will suggest here, that that attitude may be contributing to the success of the blogs. The major complaint by the new Faces of Flyertalk featured members is the attitude and treatment of newbies and fellow members. They are not treated that way on the blogs.

vintastic16

Amen! Thanks for standing up for us Rick! I could not agree more! As a newbie, I've tried on multiple occasions to get help and try to "fit in" by learning more. More often than not I've been ignored or mocked at. Your blog as well as others has allowed me to appreciate the mileage game and I've really gleaned much of my knowledge from the blogs alone. FT values itself as a community...I'd like to suggest another community, the blogger community. The blogger community is one I am proud to be part of and one in which I feel especially welcomed. As far as I'm concerned the Frugal Travel Guy deserves a commission from a credit card application and etc. because they provide the knowledge that many FT'ers would not. I'm happy to contribute there and happy to see its success. Keep at it Rick!!

CodeAdam10

OP, I checked your posting history and could not find a single evidence of you being ignored or mocked at. In fact, at least (1) FT'er has answered whatever questions you have posted since April.

need2ski

I find the last bit (bolding mine) to be a bit amusing. Of course they are not treated poorly on blogs - they blog owner has a vested interest in providing helpful responses and can eliminate anything they find detrimental to the cause (and you and I both know "cause" = $$). More importantly, blogs are not really an interactive forum. The owner creates a post, viewers read the post, and if so moved, write a comment. On FT, content is only created through dialog by multiple parties. The more people adding content, the greater the likelihood of people holding disparate opinions. The format of blogs is vastly different and severely lessens the opportunity for antagonism.

You can kumbaya all you want, but create an open forum on your blog for viewers to comment without moderation, and I guarantee you will have snarky comments.

<redacted>

mnscout

Yes, the attitude is here, but I think it's starting to change. I think I have found real answers and desire to help in some recent threads started by newbies. The problem is that some folks, sometimes, tend to forget they used to be a newbie too at some point.

belfordrocks

OH, where is the like button.

^^

Anyone seriously think blog comments are a even a semi-authoritative method of gauging actual response?

freeloader

Since my quote spun off this thread, I'd like to say my attitude is not anti-newbie, and I'd hate if my quote becomes the poster child of "attitude" bc that wasn't my point and is out of context

I have always welcomed new members, and helped quite a few via PMs and discussions at FTU. My objection was, and is, bloggers lifting info from FT, packaging it with CC links, and profiting while acting as some sorts of "world experts"

"attitude" doesn't led newbies to blogs as much as blogs are way easier to deal with. However, the downside is that with blogs you have a large closed community where one profits, good deals dry up much quicker, and there is zero conversation. I love reading and participating in the free flowing conversation of FT where there really is little moderation or censorship. Try offering constructive criticism on some blogs out there and see if the comment gets through. It may, but I've seen many times where it didn't (like the OPs blog or detapoints).

Anyhow, somewhat off topic, but I wanted to get my two cents in there since again, it's my quote at the top

Stubtify

I'm relatively new here (less than 2 years), and I can safely say that I have had no trouble with FT. The issues seem to come from people who want quick and easy solutions, and want to know everything but don't want to put any work in.

I refer friends to FT all the time. They tell me it is intimidating to read. I tell them that it is because they don't have the basic understanding of the game being played. The understanding comes from reading--something they they tell me takes too much time. There is no solution to not wanting to do the work required. Blogs offer an quick and easy fix.

The allure of blogs comes from slick photos, discussion of how a $5,000 FC seat was had for $2.50, and glossing over all of the real work that needs to be done.

The largest misconception I believe blogs perpetuate is that miles can take you anywhere you want to go, anytime, and in first class style. I almost feel sorry for newbies who fall into that, applying for Mariott CC, AA miles, US miles, and Hilton cards and then realizing they can't go where they want to when they want to with any of their miles.

A blog that discusses things as frankly as FT would be boring to these type of readers. There is a learning curve--a somewhat steep one to FF collecting/using. A lot of newbies approach FF miles wanting a step by step guide. There is no such thing. Programs are constantly changing, as are ways to earn and burn miles.

wise2u

FT people are quite helpful, without FT the bloggers would have a lot less to spoonfeed to the casual reader.
FT tends to turn newbees off because it is massive, full of cryptic acronyms and terminology, and requires an effort to read, read and read some more before you can begin to know what info to search out....
I tried for a month or so and gave up, moving to other easier to read travel sites for a year before I came back and read more. I missed out on some good stuff due to my own lack of effort. I did a good bit of research into programs and partners through their sites and the official channels. After I had a better grasp on some subjects, I came back and expanded my knowledge here by reading some of the many, many, many subjects discussed here. I asked better questions and got better replies and help.
Frankly it's an education, it takes time and effort. It's like FT is a literature class and the bloggers are mostly writing cliffnotes. You can not learn math, by doing it on a calculator, getting easy answers from bloggers instead of researching what best interests you is sad. It promotes killing the deal by naive, greedy, slackards.
FT is a community with thousands of people who are bright enough to do the research, examine the angles, and loopholes...then share and discuss among ourselves the best way to take advantage of the many travel related programs. It's members, for the most part, have used some finnesse and tried to keep the programs working. Bloggers, slickdealers, and fatwallet people exploit programs to death with the attitude of "as long as i get mine before it dies" Thier readers have no work or research invested and don't care if what they read about Friday is around for the next guy on Monday.
Newbees that are willing to work (by work I mean read, read, and use the search button) will fit into the community and most are helped and made feel welcome.
There are many forums here that I have never read and would be a newbee in....and unless I'm looking for clarification or specific information, I wouldn't post any questions until I had read a lot of posts. That way I'm not asking the same simple question that has been answered 100+ times, people like that get some attitude from the rest, but it's to be expected.
I wouldnt say attitude drives people to blogs. I would say it's the other way around, blogs help newbees get some ideas and see some angles, then when your ready to take the training wheels off you can come to FT and find your own destinations.
I do continue to check some of my old sites for info, because you cant read everything on FT everyday...here are some old ones I like: Frugaltravelguy, viewfromthewing, milemaven, and http://www.freefrequentflyermiles.com/index.htm
the last site has a "what's new?" tab that has kept me from missing some promotions that may stay hidden in FT's too many layers.

Mommy Points

I 100% agree with this for many blogs, mine included. That really is a large part of what it is. It's a safe and easy way to get into the miles and points game. Many posts link to or reference forums like FT, and point the readers there for more info. I have no doubt that some of them in turn become helpful, active FT members in their own rite. I'm sure some just stick with the easy stuff, and that is fine, too.

Blogs and FT really can work in harmony. Newbies don't stay newbies forever, and it is a logical progression for many to eventually become more active on the forums, and less reliant on the blogs. Blogs are also a safe and easy way for folks new to miles and points to learn some basics before venturing off to forums to exchange more detailed info. They also remain a quick way for anyone to stay on top of the main deals when you are too busy to dig through the forums. Something for everyone.

Mile-a-holic

Sure, if newbies only need to know of the same three credit cards. But FT members don't have any vested interested interested in referrals, so we help them think throughout from the beginning not after the first three apps. Hence, our posts backs give detailed info and ask for more info, not suggest that they read a blog and just happen to have one in our signature.

Mile-a-holic

I agree - it's a community thus we get a mix. Perhaps we can create a few stickies of the better "how do I ....."

Mommy Points

We all know the referral debate will just go in circles, but blogs absolutely talk about credit cards. FT absolutely talks about credit cards. They are an easy way to earn miles and points, so of course they get talked about. However, I wouldn't read a blog that didn't explain why a certain card might be good (or bad), or that didn't encourage people to think about their travel goals when choosing cards.

Blogs also talk about lots of other promotions and tips. FT also talks about lots of other promotions and tips. Hopefully for the most part blogs and FT all are helpful in a polite way. Really no reason not to be, especially given the topic.

tom911

What, exactly, do you want the Talk Board to do here?