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Originally Posted by Marathon Man
(Post 19242948)
Well maybe the format of FT is not great for everything, and it certainly doesn't just deal with finance, so one has to go digging, but I have gleaned most of my information about all things CC, credit, CB, GC, Miles, Points, rebates and promos from forums like this one. And I tend to rely on places like FT more than blogs when wanting to find something out that's new--ie, I can make a new thread, which one cannot do in a blog unless they make their own blog!--and I can make that thread here even about non-mileage issues.
For example, you stated you know a lot about finance... Kindly look at THIS thread I started about a banking issue I had (and find I keep having) and comment there. It seems if finance is your forte then Ft has a place for you in many sections. I do suppose that you will have to read the entire thread to fully understand the issue at hand that I brought up. It's not long though, and yes, one needs to MAKE time if one is inclined to do a thing of interest. You may be new or have few posts, but that is not why I would judge you. It would be on your willingness to participate in a way that both debates and discusses things on FT as well as contributes with new information or deals we can use along the way. I will say, however, that my reading of your posts--just at first that is--made me think that if anything, YOU had some 'tude goin on there--especially by saying that much of what we all do in here requires little intelligence, which to some, means we is stoopid or sommin. Then again, as I type I will admit that I am up way too early and haven't had coffee so maybe I just read it wrong-like. I am sure what you are trying to say is that the line of work you are in requires a high level of attention and careful planning, and it deals with huge sums of money so some of what we discuss here is chicken feed in terms of the amount of money being laid out. That said, I will remind you of this fact--which is where we mileage mongers win over people who have a lot of money to toss around like those hedge funders you work for must: A business class ticket from say AMS-SEZ with a stopover in VCE can run you upwards of $10,000 per person. But you can also do it with just 90k UA miles. That's a couple CC apps and a few gift card promos or something. How to do those promos and which CC is WHY we are here reading and posting and tweaking and learning. The big difference between this stuff and the world of finance (or law for that matter) is that while all three have imperfections, this one is, as I have said many times before, a lot like the way money and society was around the days of Al Capone. The ball is moving in a hundred different non-accountable directions at all times and differently for many people, and there is much corruption and little reliability on absolute value. The whole thing could crash tomorrow and you're out 200,000 miles or you can find a windfall and gain 300k more in some fast moving little schema. It's a roller coaster ride, which many here seem to very much thrive on--self included. Maybe this does not impress you or blow your hair back, but to me, a lot of what goes on in here is gold. And I haven't paid cash for a plane ticket to anywhere for myself or my family of 4 in about 8 years so think of the savings! Much to digest there... ;)MM MM, How diplomatic of you! |
Originally Posted by oliver2002
(Post 19243913)
MM, if you come from a certain line of work you tend to read thing carefully, yet quickly. Back when I started work at an engineering office fresh out of college my boss told me to always read everything, if possible chronologically. It was a pain then (try reading a tender document for a chemical plant and you will know what I mean) but it has given me speed reading skill to this day and make reading FT easipeasy. I'm assuming the previous poster was pointing out something similar.
Anyway I come from a graphic production background morphed into none other than marketing promotions. I tend to make as many mistakes as the next person but I do take much of this stuff with a grain of salt in the end. No worries.
Originally Posted by balima
(Post 19244728)
MM,
How diplomatic of you! |
Originally Posted by balima
(Post 19239578)
Sorry to disagree - but I disagree. I do read all the pages. I find that little golden nuggets often appear that lead to a better understanding of information that I am looking for. .
Originally Posted by balima
(Post 19239578)
Yes, it may take some time to read 20 pages or so, but isn't the outcome worth some of your time? I think that is the reason some are reticent to answer questions. They perceive the wannabe spoon fed types can't be bothered to spend a little time looking for answers that will enable them to fly cheap or free..
People may have read the previous posts but something dated 2, 3 or more years ago is utterly pointless. Hotels and restaurants close and open all the time or they change name and ownership.
Originally Posted by balima
(Post 19239578)
The other problems for newbies is that quick answers might lead them into trouble. Jumping feet first into some areas might get you financially reviewed, shut down or lose money. I agree with Marathon Man, this is a marathon around the world. Not a sprint to the Great Wall of China. Newbies need to learn the nuances as well. Learning the nuances will generate long term FTers that hopefully will then know enough to contribute back into the community. Not just a quick shot for miles/points and then are gone.
You dont know peoples individual backgrounds...just because they have lost posts here doesn mean they dont know what they are talking about. |
Originally Posted by djp98374
(Post 19252114)
People may have read the previous posts but something dated 2, 3 or more years ago is utterly pointless. Hotels and restaurants close and open all the time or they change name and ownership.
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Originally Posted by djp98374
(Post 19252114)
Quick answer may lead them to trouble---how exactly?
Originally Posted by AlohaDaveKennedy
In the days of the mint deal we had one such newbie rush into ordering a quantity of presidential dollars without the warning that he should have large dollar shipments sent to a secure site. That ended in tragedy for that newbie with a several thousand dollar order.
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Originally Posted by djp98374
(Post 19252114)
... It would be nice to have a first page posting of the new codes.
Easy peasy. If I am in a forum I don't frequent and can't find what I'm looking for after a serious attempt at search, I always preface a post with apologies to the forum regulars for missing what might be there and asking to be referred to the appropriate thread if someone knows where it might be found. Again, seems an easy and respectful approach to take. |
Originally Posted by cblaisd
(Post 19255461)
I really don't understand the problem. If I want to research a hotel (not simply post a question expecting others to do concierge work for me) or discounts or something similar, I do the appropriate search, then click on the little arrow to take me to the last post of the thread and then read backwards until I have as much information as I feel I want/need.
Easy peasy. If I am in a forum I don't frequent and can't find what I'm looking for after a serious attempt at search, I always preface a post with apologies to the forum regulars for missing what might be there and asking to be referred to the appropriate thread if someone knows where it might be found. Again, seems an easy and respectful approach to take. For example i one time replied to a post I thought was new because it said it was new where I was but it got merged with a dated thread so I reply to the original posting and I was lambasted by some for some of why I replier to a dated thread. Technology is there if you are going to link a thread onto an old one that you can route the link so you just get to the new post not the original post. If you actually manged the proper construct of threads that were obvious to the viwer of what was in it it would be much easier instead of burying it. For example under the destinations piece you could have for cities reviews of travelers of different hotels in those locations from personal experiences. With these threads you delete threads that are dated from a few years ago. |
Originally Posted by djp98374
(Post 19255539)
For example under the destinations piece you could have for cities reviews of travelers of different hotels in those locations from personal experiences. With these threads you delete threads that are dated from a few years ago.
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Originally Posted by mia
(Post 19126743)
The MilesBuzz! moderators think that FlyerTalk member attitude toward new members is a worthwhile topic, but distinct from the topic of this thread, and not best discussed in a Miles & Points forum. The Community Director suggested moving it to TalkBoard Topics.
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Originally Posted by cblaisd
(Post 19255461)
I really don't understand the problem. If I want to research a hotel (not simply post a question expecting others to do concierge work for me) or discounts or something similar, I do the appropriate search, then click on the little arrow to take me to the last post of the thread and then read backwards until I have as much information as I feel I want/need.
Easy peasy. If I am in a forum I don't frequent and can't find what I'm looking for after a serious attempt at search, I always preface a post with apologies to the forum regulars for missing what might be there and asking to be referred to the appropriate thread if someone knows where it might be found. Again, seems an easy and respectful approach to take. People learn and remember in different ways - the 'just read the thread backwards' argument seems to work fine for some, but not for all. But those who it works fine for keep saying that's 'all' you need to do, as though I am some kind of idiot because it doesn't work for me, and don't seem to realise that learning styles are personal, I'm effectively barred from using a whole load of forums unless it's so important for me that I have to sit and read through a thread which may have been running for 8 years. And very little is that important, so those forums lose me as a contributor. |
Originally Posted by cblaisd
(Post 19255461)
I really don't understand the problem. If I want to research a hotel (not simply post a question expecting others to do concierge work for me) or discounts or something similar, I do the appropriate search, then click on the little arrow to take me to the last post of the thread and then read backwards until I have as much information as I feel I want/need.
Easy peasy. If I am in a forum I don't frequent and can't find what I'm looking for after a serious attempt at search, I always preface a post with apologies to the forum regulars for missing what might be there and asking to be referred to the appropriate thread if someone knows where it might be found. Again, seems an easy and respectful approach to take. And you can find people who are like-minded when in any forum if you read through and get a feel or 'vibe' of the culture in a forum. Or you could PM those with whom you have already had conversations and ask for clarification on things--because they may ask the same of you elsewhere. Or you could always add something of value so that others 'like' you and thus feel more compelled to share things with you as you ask things of them. All these seem to make sense to me. We do have to do the 'work' of reading some or even a lot of back posts in threads to learn how something works. Heck, look at THIS thread for example! It's gotten so long that if I receive an email notification on a new post and I click on it, there happens to be more like 10 new posts made on top of the one I got notice of, not just the one I am pointed to! (btw how does one change that feature or can it even BE changed? lol) Someone here mentioned that threads should have stickies or some updates done to the first post or something. Well, that's a grande idea, but who has to do that work? The OP? Some secret person? A Moderator? Oh sure, some may feel compelled to do such work and in many cases it makes things better for them as well, or they just love making lists, but it's a ton of work and we are lucky when it's done. But it should not be 'expected' all the time, now should it? So how much are we going to pay that person to constantly make and update such lists, or hope that they have the free time to do that for us? I think the Quarterly rental car thread is a good example of this. Kudos to the Op and others who always update that long and well crafted list of all the clickable codes and information. I mean, that is just plain awesome. But man oh man I sure hope everyone who uses that thread appreciates the people typing those in. I certainly do but how can I even show it? I guess I try to show it by being helpful in areas in FT where I know things and can help others. Again that brings us back to the mentality I try to have here as mentioned in my first paragraph. But seriously, when it comes to these lists and codes on the first page of some long thread, how much work and time did it take for them to type it all for me? Should we all do our part in 'paying back' by at the very least READING the thread or as much of it as we can in order to gain other updates? I think so. And I think with blogs, you don't get the chance to do all of that so people now think we shouldn't have to in here. :)MM |
Originally Posted by Jenbel
(Post 19255893)
Sorry, you propose this as though it is a one size fits all solution, when it is not. It's something that just doesn't work for me. I find it extremely difficult to read threads backwards - I don't take in the information, because I'm reading the answers to questions I don't know yet and I find that frustrating, and get more caught up wondering what was asked than retaining the answer.
People learn and remember in different ways - the 'just read the thread backwards' argument seems to work fine for some, but not for all. But those who it works fine for keep saying that's 'all' you need to do, as though I am some kind of idiot because it doesn't work for me, and don't seem to realise that learning styles are personal, I'm effectively barred from using a whole load of forums unless it's so important for me that I have to sit and read through a thread which may have been running for 8 years. And very little is that important, so those forums lose me as a contributor. For example, if one wanted to know when or why Aloha Dave Kennedy started to call the people who run credit card risk departments and fraud teams (particularly AMEX) 'cardinals' and why that term is now used in the "Getting Spend up without the Mint" thread as though it were fully understood code, then one could (A) Pm and ask him, (B) be a Monty Python fan, (C) go back to a point in the thread and start reading forward-- where he tells us a few times which Monty Python movie the jested term is taken from. Then, when trying to read today's posts in that long thread, one would not be so baffled by some of the code and lingo that has sprung up as a result of his term introduction! |
Well the last train the trainer course I attended identified four distinct learning modes (not purported at all - unless you consider all educational theory purported!). No, I can't remember which they are, but I know I'm not the learn by reading lots and lots and lots around a subject - I'm the learn by visualising/doing type. Which means the worst way you can expect me to learn is to give me a mass of information all at once and expect me to read it (backwards) and to retain that. I like my information in short, manageable chunks, so 20 threads, all with a subtly different title, which lets me pick and chose which to me are relevant, is a better way of presenting information than those 20 threads all combined into one for me.
All I'm doing is making the point that that which works for you might not work for others, and to continually insist that this is the only true way because it works for you does a disservice to others on the board for whom it does not. But I'm also aware we are going back towards megathreads, which is a subject done to death, so I'll shut up now ;) |
Originally Posted by tom911
(Post 19255609)
So in addition to the existing hotel forums which contain reviews, you would propose we have hotel listings under the various destination forums? That sounds more like the Trip Advisor model. Is that what you want the Talk Board to consider? I think that's going to be a hard sell when the same material already exists in separate hotel forums and we have a policy prohibiting cross posting.
As it stands now people will throw their recent stays at hotels all over the place. It makes more sense on the destinations thread to set up stickys on hotels for some large cities. People put their experiences of where they stayed. Now it is thrown into different threads based on what chain. Someone looking here looking for info may have plans on traveling to Chicago for a business and they want to know where to stay. |
Originally Posted by tom911
(Post 19255641)
Do any of the Talk Board members have any comments on the original topic of this thread? Looks like the Talk Board member turnout here is pretty low so far (I count 2). :)
Now with that being said, one cannot change how people post ("do a search" :td: vs actually being helpful ^) and it would be nice if folks would follow the latter but I also <and now ducking> think that moderators should be deleting the "do a search" type of posts as they (imho) are not helpful and if a moderator sees such a post, perhaps they could step up and direct the poster to the appropriate thread(s) as possibly (n.b. possibly) with the cooperation & combination of moderators and proactive members, it could be a step in the right direction (yeah, I know, a pipe-dream but still :)) <and ducking even further/farther> I really don't want to hear that it's too much work for the moderators because afaic, that is imho, part of their job (just like deleting posts of "+1" but I digress ;)) |
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