Dovster

I have no particular preference for what form the name takes but I don't agree that "the current situation is fine".

Even as a veteran FTer living in Israel, I wouldn't know what the correct forum would be for me to discuss a problem I had on Arkia, ask a question about Sun D'Or, or report what the best seat would be on an Israir flight.

If I don't know, I can guarantee you that a newbie on the site doesn't.

yosithezet

The appropriate forum is Other Middle East and Africa Frequent Flyer Programs Any newbie would look down the list of fora and see that clearly. Sometimes the fact that we have so much experience makes us overlook the obvious.

Dovster

Why would that be the appropriate forum? Sun Dor is part and parcel of El Al -- it even uses the same personnel.

Arkia? Those who own El Al today used to own Arkia.

El Al, Arkia, Sun Dor, and Israir all use the same security people outside of Israel.

It would seem to me that it is a lot more sensible to keep them all in the same forum.

yosithezet

Because they are "other middle east" airlines. I believe you can even see the rest of the Middle East from your window my friend.

Sun D'Or is part if EL AL like American Eagle is part of EL AL so I can see this argument. But we don't need to change the name for this. Perhaps the description.

Who cares who used to own Arkia? What does tha have to do with the price of hummus at Abu Hassan? No relavence whatsoever. A newbie would have no idea about this obscure tie anyway.

Who cares that thy use he same security. Many airlines use the same caterers in London do their KSML meals. Should we move them all into the same forum?

Really, there doesn't seem to be a problem with the current situation. If there is, please point it out with examples.

Dovster

The purchase of El Al by the owners of Arkia (who had to divest themselves of the latter as a result) gave the two airlines very similar management philosophies -- meaning that there still are many similarities which impact passengers.


There is a very big difference between the two. As you say, many airlines use the same caterers but only Israeli airlines use the same security people. This means that what you can expect from one of these airlines is exactly what you can expect from the others.

Fly Delta, Continental, or US Airways from the States to TLV and you will not have the same security interviews that you will on any Israeli airline -- even if those American companies serve the same kosher food. Okay, as Israelis we know what to expect, but that is not true of first time visitors -- and the people who can best fill them in are the posters on the El Al Forum.


"I am flying Israir to Israel and arriving on Saturday morning. Will there be buses to my hotel?" -- El Al posters will be the ones best able to answer this.

I am going to Rhodes for four days on an Arkia flight. Where can I park my car at the airport and how much will it cost? -- again, the El Al regulars will be able to provide the answer (as they did for me a few weeks ago).

"Can I get El Al Matmid points by flying Sun D'Or"? -- Matmid flyers might well provide the answer, and they tend to post more on the LY Forum than they do the Middle East Forum.

"I am flying to France on an Israeli airline. Can I buy a bottle of Galil Mountain wine outside of the airport and take it with me on the plane?"* -- the answer will be the same for any Israeli airline, but not on most foreign ones. The El Al posters will be the most knowledgable about it.

*Full disclosure: This was a freebie plug. Galil Mountain wine is produced by Kibbutz Yiron, where I am a member.

N830MH

Yes, you're absolutely right. They don't have to moved the appropriate forum. The thread should be in El Al Israel Airlines forum. It's right choice for everyone. I meant do not moved a different forum. The thread should be belonged in El Al forum.

yosithezet

1, 2 and 4 belong in Destinations -> Middle East Travel.

3 belongs in EL AL.

Dovster

Technically, you are correct. However they only "belong" there because TB has not included these airlines in the El Al Forum.

As a moderator, you have realized that such threads often make more sense to be in the El Al Forum, even when they don't discuss LY.

In fact, when I started a thread there about long term parking at TLV, even though I was flying Czech Air, you had no problem in letting it stay there. (I am not criticizing you for that -- in fact, I am applauding you. You realized that it was the best place for me to get the needed information.)

What I am suggesting is that TB recognize reality and say that anything dealing with Israel-based airlines (or, for that matter, TLV) be in the El Al Forum. That is where the correct answers will be posted quickly.

(Call me naive, but I tend to believe that LY posters are more familiar with Israel than those who live in Damascus or Mecca and can not come to Israel even if they want to.)

cblaisd

Exactly.

Otherwise, it's like having threads about St. George, Utah, in the Other North American forum because Skywest is headquartered in St. George.

Having threads where folks, and particularly newbies, can reasonably expect to find them makes FT so much more logical and welcoming.

As to the topic at hand, it would seem to make sense to have a more encompassing and helpful to have "Israel-based Airlines" forum.

yosithezet

Would we then also change the TG forum to Thailand-based airlines? AC to Canada-based airlines?

I could support this so long as it keeps the EL AL monicker. So "EL AL Matmid and other Israel-based airlines" Otherwise I think we are going backwards with regards to intuitiveness. I go looking for an airline withint the Miles and Points section. I don't go looking for a country and then the airline.

Dovster

It is my understanding that El Al has a total of 40 airplanes. Arkia has 8, Israir 7 and Sun D'Or 3.

Together, they have one hub -- TLV.

SkyWest has 294 aircraft and 9 hubs.

There is no possible way to equate SkyWest with all of the Israel-based airlines together, much less El Al by itself.

The Israeli-based airlines, together, equate to one small airline in many countries. It simply makes good sense to put all information about the Israel-based airlines, and their one hub airport, into a single forum.

Further information about travel in Israel (the Galilee, Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, the Dead Sea, etc) can go in the Middle East Destinations Forum. Indeed, it would make little sense to combine finding a hotel in Tiberias with flying into/out of Israel.

Dovster

I would have no problem with that. I am not as interested in the exact name of the forum as I am in its content.

yosithezet

Is there currently a problem with regards to the way the content is being handled? As I said, we can just adjust the description of the forum.

Dovster

The problem is the lack of clarity, not in how you are moderating the forum. A name change (including the one you suggested) and a description change -- showing that all Israeli-based airlines and TLV itself are part of the forum's remit would satisfy me completely.

TWA884

Right now, there is an active thread there titled "Arkia orders 4 Airbus 320 neo." There is a sticky thread discussing "New routes / extra frequencies to and from TLV - all airlines."

For all practical purposes, the El Al Matmid forum has morphed into a forum discussing all airlines' service to Israel.