Is Talkboard willing to reconsider MR access?
 

The last TB considered this issue in the past term, but in the end no changes were made despite a measure passing:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/town-...striction.html
then being rescinded:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/town-...run-forum.html
and eventually being shot down:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/town-...ion-forum.html

In truth, this is a tricky subject and I am rather sure there is no perfect solution. However, nothing has really improved by keeping the status quo. We still get threads that have more arguing over if a fare belongs in the Trick-It thread or bashing the OP for posting in the MR deals:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milea...305-ai-rt.html

While access restrictions were considered last time, I do not see the need to restict thinking to just that. Some of the clutter/bickering could be removed by a clear mandate regarding what a Trick-It fare is (e.g. x1,x3,OJ,DOH to remove YQ) versus an MR deal (e.g. low CPM fares, error fares, making use of creative routings). It might also alleviate some of the Tricks migrating into the MR deals forum, which in some ways has become a graveyard for tricks.

The next step is to try and keep all fares alive for a bit longer. Access restrictions were considered last time, and perhaps that is still a possible solution. While I feel that MR Deals and MR Discussions should be open fora, having some restrictions to the Trick-It thread (or realistically its own forum) could keep them around longer. I am quite sure that posters will still code their x3 and x1, but fares like the SEA-MAD could be protected a bit longer. The fare can always be brought out to the open fora once a fare reaches AFWD, blogs, etc.

Finally there is the "community spirit" of the Trick-It thread...or lack of:p. There are some wonderfully smart people there that work hard coming up with new tricks. I would like to see TB take the initiative to try and protect some of their work while also trying to make the Trick-It thread more open and welcoming. I came to Flyertalk to find good fares and for the community spirit...both of these fail (tricks get hidden, the spirit is lacking) in how the Trick-It thread operates. Something seems wrong when the most viewed thread in the MR fora goes against how the rest of FT works.

With all that being said, is it time to reconsider things again? Is TB happy with the status quo? Are there better solutions?

I'm happy with the status quo.

Restricting knowledge & information is not, and should not be, what FlyerTalk is about, IMHO.

Isn't that (i.e. restricting knowledge through coding) exactly what is happening in the Trick-It thread? I am also noticing more and more threads where many, if not a majority, of the posts are complaining that the OP posted the thread in MR Deals rather than hiding it in the Trick-It thread.

The Trick-It thread dominates the MR fora yet operates against the value of FT you stated. Perhaps the whole MR fora don't need overhauls, but last year it was enough of an issue to bring several votes through TB. If TB can address Post Count on a yearly basis, why not revisit the MR access proposals again:p.

My sentiments exactly when it comes to the deal forums here.

While I don't personally like anything that forces members to jump through any kind of hoop to be able to get ahold of deals that others are able to achieve, my understanding is that it is at least possible to read the information in that thread and be able to decipher exactly what the "tricks" are and how to translate posts in that thread so that they are usable. I don't know whether my description here is accurate or not, as I've never stepped foot into the thread, but based on descriptions I've seen here in the TB forum, that's my interpretation of what goes on in there.

That said, what exactly would be gained for the FT membership on the whole by restricting MR deals to members with x posts, or just logged-in members, or or or.... ? I know these would at least keep Google bots and the like out, but I'm not sure who else we need to safeguard those deals against.

Thing is, by the time a mistake fare is posted on FT, either in a restricted forum or not, the ship has pretty much sailed. Mistake fares are better fodder for listservs, imho.

That said, sure, why not create a restricted forum for them....although of course there are long-time FTers who work for the companies that set fares and formulas so would be perfectly eligible to hang out in even the most restricted forums...@:-)

Bolding mine... That is the issue with restricting access, or even making it so that one would need to be logged in to view the forum. Unless company representatives are barred from viewing the forum, there are many who would meet the criteria for access.

And it's not just the obvious company reps you would have to keep out. There are folks who work for the contractors to the airlines that set fares and calculate fare formulas who are Evangelists here.

IOW, there is no way you are going to have anything resembling 'keeping them alive longer' on FT.

I would ask you to take a look at the Trick-It thread and see if you feel the same. The thread is somewhat managable if you already know the tricks. With that being said, I appreciate the fact that the posters do make efforts to code deals as they die quickly in MR deals.

Restricing MR Deals would not gain anything. What about creating a restricted forum for error fares and tricks? I was thinking more along the lines of creating a protected sandbox, whether it is from Google Bots or lurkers is up to how any restrictions would be set. I do not see any restrictions preventing tricks/fares from being closed, but perhaps it keeps deals alive a bit longer or creates a place for people to be a bit more open.

Error fares and low CPM routings are somewhat a thing of the past. Some of the best deals involve a lack of YQ and the community (i.e. registered posters) might benefit more from this if it could be made to work.

So Koko is for keeping the status quo:confused:;):p?

Looking at your sig, think of my proposal as wondering if the Trick-It tread (and when tricks spill into MR Deals) is really working for FT and it could be improved. It does not seem to pass the litmus tests for community spirit and sharing.

Lol.

I THINK my position is: I'm for leaving MR the way it is. If the fare is one that is being legitimately offered, then no worries letting everyone in on a good mileage run deal is what MR is and ought to be all about!

IF folks want a restricted place for 'really good deals' or 'too good to be true deals' or 'mistakes and tricks' (or whatever euphemism) I'd support it, but I don't think it will keep the deals or tricks alive any longer than they are now.

One contractor to the airlines told me that they are well aware of the fuel dumps, for example, and can and do shut them down from time to time...but only when the airlines are willing to pay for them to do so. ;)

I looked back in the past thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ged-users.html) when this issue was last discussed and there are a lot of good points for both sides. I just have had this feeling that FT has still not figured out how to handle this best. I agree that all legit fares and routings should be posted for everyone to use. However, I do feel that some discretion would be helpful for tricks and error fares. OMNI and CC survived access restictions, so why can't something in MR?

I can believe this and recall that this was the case for the AFWD inncident. I am not worried about contractors and company reps as they are a great addition to FT. Airlines can tolerate error fares and such when they are not causing major damage but are willing to close them off quickly when abused. I am more curious if we can find a solution to bots (to begin with). Last year was a difficult year for me as I had 2 FD itineraries cancelled and an error fare almost cancelled. I am willing to try anything that decreases the odds of this happening.

Okay, I took a quick (~10-15 minutes) look in there, and it looks like I've seen some people ask for a cheap fare from point A to point B, someone replies with a fare and some code language to help the person requesting the information find the fare, and it is possible, via PM, to get specific language on how to do it if necessary. Is that a fair summary of how that thread works? Obviously it's a very big thread, so I didn't read every single page.

I still don't see this as being a viable plan for keeping deals active longer. Anyone on FT who can currently access MR/MR Discussion would be able to access the new forum if they want to, and that includes travelers, company reps, or anyone else. Let's face it, even with an x days membership or y posts restriction, it's not that hard to reach those amounts.

I really think you're living in a dream world if you think that everyone who would/could have access to such a restricted forum would only be in it for the greater good of FT members getting great fares and not for their own (or their company's) personal gain. And nobody would ever know if there are members in there that aren't looking out for the greater good, I'm afraid. :(

Is creating a new forum the way to go as we all know that mistake fares (and "super deal fares for that mater) will (imho) inevitably be posted first in the "regular deals" forums and then have to be moved. Just a thought but I would be in favor of restricting access to the M/R deals forum to having to be logged in