JohnnyColombia

Yes you are right there is no way to check if she came back, had a look and left again without an acknowledgement.

I think there is a "moved post" link but AAdvantage is a fast forum and the link would fall off the front page somewhat rapidly.

Just had a look and none of the posts on page 1 are over 5 hours old

andreadbc

I just wanted to agree with everyone who mentioned that until we have a "LAN section", people don't really know where to post their questions or find answers. We then end up with many repeated topics and new threads opened in the AA (codeshares, elite benefits, OW award redemption), South America (residency requirements, Peru/Ecuador/Chile flights), Argentina (domestic residency issues, crazy high foreigner prices), oneworld (TAM merger, alliance speculation) sub-forums, spread out and making things difficult for everyone.

I'd quote all of JohnnyColombia's post... but it would be a terribly long quote! So, um... word to everything he said.

I try and find answers to many LAN-related questions, but LAN is many times inconsistent, ridiculous and doesn't tend to publicize how things work with them. It makes it frustrating to deal with them sometimes, but it definitely makes finding answers and sharing FTers' experiences a lot more important. As far as I know, there is no other place to discuss LAN in English, and this could be it. I would love to be able to continue helping out in the new forum once it exists, should that happen. (I don't really think that I have the credentials to be a mod like JohnnyColombia suggested, but I can definitely be very enthusiastic when discussing both LAN's good and bad side!)

I hope we can make it happen this time around... do I need to go grovel somewhere or what?

jackal

Your frustration is understandable, but the reason that it's "complicated" is that you're trying to convince a group of people with very diverse views on how FlyerTalk should look to all agree (or at least two thirds of them) on one thing.

Some of us are very willing to give new forums a chance. Some feel that too many forums fragment the information available on FlyerTalk. And some believe that an inactive forum is worse than no forum at all.

Your job, through the information-gathering process described above [see the quote of my post by lin821] is to assuage the doubts of those who are less willing than some of us to support this that the forum will succeed and contribute to the success of the FlyerTalk community.

Your other option is to wait until November and lobby to get those you don't like off the board.

However, even though I tend to support the creation of new forums that have even just a chance of success, I will say that continued posts like these are not going to help change the minds of those less willing than those like cholula and I. Even though a LAN forum seems "obvious" to you and me, it may not be "obvious" to them, and unless you present the necessary evidence to show them why they're wrong, they're just going to vote against it--which makes posts like these unproductive.

I understand Eastbay1K's (and your) frustration at this process, but if you actually want to make change, you have to work within the system we have. And if you don't want to do the work of contacting your TalkBoard members (listed here) yourself and trying to convince them, perhaps a struggling firm on K Street who needs extra work would be willing to work for you for a reasonable fee.

JohnnyColombia

Yes only jesting, I wouldn't wish modliness on anyone, I still think we should make you green though

JohnnyColombia

Hi jackal and thanks for your comments, nice to see another talkboarder in the thread sharing his/her opinion.

Well I will be honest, I am not really frustrated. I am just sticking my head above the parapet and having a move and a shake.

I am also not really trying to convince anyone of anything, it really is not my place to is it? FT is owned by Internet Brands and within the context of a community and online content one would imagine that the decision that is reached would be the most commercially viable. If you came to my company and told me how to run it, I may well give you a fair hearing if I have time. But I wouldn't require of you to convince me, any decision would ultimately be mine.


See that's an interesting comment, as andreadbc has already pointed out, the information is already there, it is fragmented though. To quote andreadbc

We then end up with many repeated topics and new threads opened in the AA (codeshares, elite benefits, OW award redemption), South America (residency requirements, Peru/Ecuador/Chile flights), Argentina (domestic residency issues, crazy high foreigner prices), oneworld (TAM merger, alliance speculation) sub-forums, spread out and making things difficult for everyone.

And to quote examples from today


Posted in the AA forum

Posted in the OneWorld forum

That's actually not my job, as I said most of us are gainfully employed and thankfully we don't work as FT lackies, but let's overlook that and not nitpick.

Dammit I am going to have a stab at the questionnaire, but let it be known that most of the questions have been answered and those that have not been answered I am not sure I can answer.

Acknowledging the use of a winky smiley, but seriously I feel no resentment for any of these people or any desire to oust them, or indeed any desire to involve myself in FT politics.

I hardly think it is continuous, it is two years since the motion failed for the creation of a LAN forum. Plus others have acknowledged that this post makes a persuasive argument for the creation of such a forum

So it is obvious to you, and Cholula is on board, do we have our two talkboard champions to get the ball rolling?

I don't agree that this post in unproductive, it has plenty of useful information over and above that asked by the questionnaire.

Thanks for the link jackal How about I see who is interested?

Good day to you and thanks for your input

Johnny

Eastbay1K

If those of us had enough $ for the minimum bid of a "struggling" K Street firm, we'd be flying in the paid premium cabin and wouldn't worry if our fares qualified, or how many mi/km we were accruing. We would, however, want our status

JohnnyColombia

1. Will the forum be (or is it now) beneficial to FlyerTalk?

That would depend on what FlyerTalk considers beneficial. If FT seeks to nuture communities and expertise relating to the frequent flyer programmes of major airlines then I would say wholeheartedly that yes, focussing the growing body of knowledge about the LANpass programme would be beneficial

Increasingly FT members have shown an interest in the LAN programme, SPG members have shown an interest in transferring in points to the LANpass programme, BA and AA members have sought knowledge pertaining to route construction in LAN's network. And finally FT has a body of LANpass elites and members have the bulk of this knowledge.

A new forum would more importantly be beneficial to FT from a housekeeping perspective as such queries are currently spread across numerous forums as has been demonstrated in this thread.

2. Will the new forum benefit a relationship with FlyerTalk? E.g., does the forum provide value for FT members, such as a friendly ear highly placed in the company

As I said in the OP, the likelihood of having any formal representation from LAN is virtually zero, this echoes their sometimes shameful attitude to customer service. This in my opinion is a reason FOR having a LAN forum and not a reason AGAINST. To focus the combined knowledge of the LANpass frequent flyer programme, tips for dealing with customer service and expectations will potentially create the largest single English language body of LAN knowledge on the internet. That will make it easier for existing FT users and bring more users. I say that with a degree of certainty as I have already said in this thread, I myself came to FT having fruitlessly chased my bags around Latin America for 3 weeks.

3. Is FT the best place to discuss this subject?

OK even if some of the TalkBoarders don't immediately agree that there is an obvious case for the creation of a LAN forum, can we at least agree that this question is a no-brainer and that of course the place to discuss the FF programme of Latin America's largest airline with 4 million members is naturally on a website that dedicates itself to the sharing of knowledge of loyalty reward programmes?

4. Is there a passionate following? This is essential in order to provide dedicated expert helpers to get questions answered.

Define passionate for us please? There is a dedicated, enthusiastic, helpful and knowledgeable body of members that ensure that LAN questions get answered promptly (supposing they can be found)

Calling us passionate though doesn't seem fitting given the foibles of our often troublesome airline/frequent flyer programme and the lame customer service that we are invariably victims of. Let's call us weathered rather than passionate.

5. Is a critical mass of posts and readers anticipated or existing? We need adequate traffic to keep everyone visiting frequently. One living forum is more valuable than two mostly dead ones.

OK I genuinely believe that now even more so than before the answer is yes.

In the "Other North and South America" forum on the first 4 pages exactly 50% of posts relate directly to LAN

A search of the forum yields 498 threads about LAN*

In the "OneWorld" forum on the first page, roughly 20% of posts that are not stickies would be better housed in the "Other North and South America" forum where LAN queries currently reside

In the "South America" forum over 60% of posts relate to LAN, or to the use of LAN hubs whilst flying LAN

In the "Argentina" forum, a small handful (say 10%) relate to LAN

A search of the American AAdvantage forum yields 498 threads which mention LAN*

*Note forum searches were only for LAN, not for LA, XL, LP or 4M. LA would obviously cloud the results and mix them up with LAX. Also site search is limited, even a search for "ba" on the BAEC forum yields 498 results. Perhaps we don't have the tools to provide this info. Is there a search cap at 498?

How about Google where the search site:flyertalk.com lan yields 34,800 results (all indexed incidences of the search lan term on flyertalk.com)

6. Is this the best place on FlyerTalk for this subject? This is the classification issue. The answer depends primarily on achieving and maintaining critical mass. It also depends on whether or where the discussion might (or does) occur in the absence of the forum.

OK this is one of the questions that only the TBers can decide. LAN is an airline, LANpass is an airline FF programme. Miles and points - [Forum] is the obvious place for such a discussion. The question is, on the information to hand, should that discussion take place in a dedicated LANpass forum or in "Other North and South America"

Secondly though, in the absence of a dedicated LANpass forum, that information finds its way into up to 4 other different inappropriate forums, forums where those members that could ably and willingly answer questions are not habitually looking.

7. For proposals to split a forum, is the split expected to improve the signal to noise ratio? Why?

That's an unusual question but I will try to answer it, even though it doesn't really have an answer. Were LAN questions to post in the "Women Travellers" forum then you could realistically say that one of those two is signal and the other is noise. But LAN is another airline in North and South America that does not have its own forum. All the other airlines in the "Other North and South America" forum are also airlines in North or South America that do not have their own forum. So given that all airlines in the "Other North and South America" forum are other airlines in North or South that do not have a dedicated forum then is the signal to noise ration not 1:0?

Ok now that I have earnestly and honestly answered a bit of a non-question and got us nowhere. Can I suggest that signal to noise ration is NOT the motive for creating a LAN forum? The benefit is to nurture what is a growing friendly expert community of LAN experts and focus their attentions into one place. To provide a "go to place" for LAN doubts and recognise that FT has value in its LAN knowledge base, but it has more value if that knowledge is accessible, not spread out across the whole website.

zpaul

Way to go, JohnnyColombia! Thank you for the effort above.

This may be (OK, it is) pie-in-the-sky thinking, but based on a lot of publicity around the recent StarMegaDo and reports that airlines came to FT once they realized what it is and that it could be useful for them as a customer-focused business, I have a small (MUY smallito) spark of hope that LAN may, someday, find this forum and learn from it. I include references to the website in every communication I have with Servicio al Cliente and have even told them that it would be a good idea to take a read through.

We, the dedicated sado-masochistic LAN frequent fliers, know how LAN customer/ground service is, so asking for company presence anywhere (even in the airpoirts) is asking a lot, but I think this forum would be incredibly valuable even without it. As you say, JohnnyColombia, perhaps their lack of presence anywhere (including their own website and in the airports) makes out argument for a dedicated forum even stronger.

lucky9876coins

While I voted against the motion two years ago, I'm actually in favor of it this time. Given the popularity of the BA credit card over the past couple of years here in the US, and the corresponding desire to redeem miles for travel on LAN, I have seen an increase in interest and also see an increase in the value of having a separate forum for LAN. So I'd probably support such a motion.

SkiAdcock

As mentioned before (and I do have to run to a meeting; I'll be back in the states in a couple of days & on FT more): I supported the LAN forum previously & I still support it.

I contacted an FTer who was also supportive of the LAN forum, and asked for his input because (not having been to the excellent JW Marriott mentioned above , nor in S. America ever; something to be rectified hopefully in the future), I wanted input from someone who had participated in the discussion previously, had also done homework in getting another forum approved, etc.

It might have been my bad because I asked him about the LANTAM idea, when the discussion had been steered towards that & not simply the LAN forum. While he mentioned waiting, I also posted that I don't think he'd have a problem with the LAN forum being created. I think my question had to do w/ creating one & then having the merger occur/what logistics would be involved, etc.

I also mentioned I had intended to discuss it further with TB upon my return from this trip, in terms of getting their input on moving ahead w/ a LAN forum. You all just got ahead of me But in addition to the frustration that some are expressing, I'm pleased that s ome have provided input/documentation/followed the guidelines to provide the back-up needed to get TB to consider this.

Cheers.

david_33

We should find out who is supportive of this idea and who isn´t in order to try to remove those who vote against it.

JohnnyColombia

Talkboarder round up

JohnnyColombia

1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (and counting) AA Mileage runners from FT winging their way down to LIM on LAN.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milea...-rt-342-i.html

Perhaps we can get the LAN forum set up in time for them getting bumped off their flights and being abandoned in the toilets at LIM for 2 days

Prospero

Over on the BA forum we have seen a sharp rise of discussion relating to LAN bookings and stategising on how to maximise stopover value on LAN itineraries. While this discussion is wholly within the domain of the Executive Club, one cannot ignore the signs that FTers are becoming increasing exposed to the LAN experience.

Generic regional based forums do not lend themselves well to engendering a collective knowledge base so I am encouraged by the renewed interest expressed here.

Eastbay1K

Now, now, if you are going to be abandoned by an airline, LIM is a lot better than EZE. Or even IAD C/D.