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Motion Failed to Pass: Restore Post Count Credit for Omni

Motion Failed to Pass: Restore Post Count Credit for Omni

 
Old Jul 26, 2011, 8:11 am
  #16  
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Just for clarification. If this motion pasts, it applies to both of the Omni forums. As mentioned by IB-Dick in the former discussion thread, there is no way for the software to count one subforum but not the other.

Cheers.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 8:48 am
  #17  
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I think communities by their very nature have different interests, and OMNI reflects those interests other than flying. People who are travelling (or, on the flip side, wish they were travelling, instead of being at a desk) pass the time discussing, just as in real life, politics, religion, which is the most shagworth celeb going etc etc. Their views are no more or less valuable (or directly related to travel) than someone posting about, say, what to do with quinoa, the best apple variety, or how much food they cram down their gullets at a buffet (Dining Buzz front page today) or 'thick or thin' eyebrows, opinions on mineral make up, or which loo stall it is or is not ok to use (Women Travelers front page today).

People on this forum, by and large, travel. I think it helps to know what other views, contrary to ones own, exist, and whilst you may not agree with them, any or all of the time, I like to think it makes us realize the world is a pretty big place, and what is 'obvious' or 'normal' to us, isn't necessarily the case. If that doesn't help world travelers, what does?

I vote 'let the posts count', as I really don't see the boards as split as a 'relevant to travel' and 'not relevant to travel' division anyway - so if some do, they all should. I'd also be fine with removing posts counts all together.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 9:04 am
  #18  
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No. OMNI is such a different world and isn't central to the mission of FT. I enjoy the discussions in those forums, but the post counts should reflect contribution to the "flyer" part of FlyerTalk.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 9:11 am
  #19  
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I'm inclined to vote "NO" as well, but with one caveat: if all those stupid "counting" and other post-padding threads could be made to not count (or better yet, disappear), then by all means, make the posts count. But I realize that this is not possible due to the software's limitations, as SkiAdcock pointed out.

The funny thing is, I remember being outraged, OUTRAGED I tell ya, when the OMNI change was made years ago. Now, I don't want it changed back. I guess I just don't like change.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 9:25 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by Mary2e
Omni posts used to count, until some people decided to create threads and made thousands of posts in "counting" threads. There's more than 1 evangelist made by just counting. While I'm all for fun and games, these type threads should be moved to an Omni Social area where posts don't count that contain only these threads.
We're discussing allowing OMNI posts to count, not counting game threads, lounge threads, or any other kind of thread. Arguments in the form of "We should let OMNI posts count because we let X posts count" are circular and impossible to resolve in the context of a vote on OMNI posts.

Let counting OMNI posts stand or fall on its own merits.

Contributions to Omni-lite (not P/R) are just as valuable as any other post on FT. There are very few places on the internet where you can get good/correct information in a short period of time. Even those people who claim Omni shouldn't exist at all on FT eventually show up there when they need a fast/good answer.
FT is about travel and travel-related issues. By definition, OMNI is OT to this central mission. When I come to FT, I come to provide and benefit from travel and travel-related knowledge. It is entirely irrelevant to me how much FTers know about plumbing, asteriods, which antacid words best, how to breakup with one's significant other, etc.

By the way, there are thousands of boards all over the internet where you can get as you put it "good/correct information in a short period of time" about all kinds of subjects. FT is one of them vis-a-vis travel and travel-related topics. There are plenty of other boards for other things.

Images were allowed in Omni because the TB wanted to make it more like the rest of FT, which allows them. Posts also count in the rest of FT, so why is this even an issue - it's either like the rest of FT or it's not.
See above: Let counting OMNI posts stand or fall on its own merits.

Posts count in Lounge threads and contain far far less good information than Omni. Again, I can think of at least one evangelist that got the title by posting in lounge threads and almost nowhere else on FT, except maybe a contest thread in Community. Why is my post in Omni, which I spent a good deal of time researching and writing, helping another member valued less by the community than someone simply posting a "good morning" in a lounge thread? IMHO, all lounge threads should be moved to the social area mentioned above.
See above: Let counting OMNI posts stand or fall on its own merits.

If we don't want to reward Omni P/R-only posters with titles/post count, do not allow them to count in Omni P/R and remove the posts from their count. The vast majority of those people do not post anywhere else on FT and only go into to FT to troll. Many of them are the reason the Omnis have such a bad reputation.
See above: Let counting OMNI posts stand or fall on its own merits.

It has been said that Omni is one of the most popular forums on FT. If that is the case, why are the people posting there treated like second class citizens?
One of the most popular formus? Perhaps. So okay, let's take a look at the threads in OMNI that make it so popular. Here are the top 10 threads of all time ranked descending by post count:

  • Newest Omni Waste Of Time - Count Down From 100,000
  • Newest OMNI waste of time - count UP to 100,000
  • [merged threads]
  • People Association Thread
  • Food association thread
  • Yankees vs. Red Sox 2007
  • Music association thread
  • Make up a lie about the previous poster...
  • Newest OMNI Waste the times - Count down 500,000
  • The "misunderstand this post and reply" thread

Yes, there are lots of other threads with more substance than these. But frankly they are literally drowing in a sea of drivel. For heaven's sake, there are nearly a hundred threads in OMNI with "waste of time" in the title of the thread itself.

So with all due respect, OMNI may be popular, but as a rule it's not because of the substance.

My vote is a strong no -- do not include OMNI posts in the post count.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 9:37 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by as219
See above: Let counting OMNI posts stand or fall on its own merits.
The Talk Board, by virtue of allowing images in Omni and stating it was to be treated like the rest of FT, already decided that Omni was just the same as the rest of FT.

As well, what does Dining Buzz have to do with the core mission of this site?

The arguments presented are listed as examples of different treatments for the same type posts. That is inconsistent and sends mixed messages.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 9:48 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by Mary2e
I'll state my support of this again since this is the official thread

  • Omni posts used to count, until some people decided to create threads and made thousands of posts in "counting" threads. There's more than 1 evangelist made by just counting. While I'm all for fun and games, these type threads should be moved to an Omni Social area where posts don't count that contain only these threads.

  • Contributions to Omni-lite (not P/R) are just as valuable as any other post on FT. There are very few places on the internet where you can get good/correct information in a short period of time. Even those people who claim Omni shouldn't exist at all on FT eventually show up there when they need a fast/good answer.

  • Images were allowed in Omni because the TB wanted to make it more like the rest of FT, which allows them. Posts also count in the rest of FT, so why is this even an issue - it's either like the rest of FT or it's not.

  • Posts count in Lounge threads and contain far far less good information than Omni. Again, I can think of at least one evangelist that got the title by posting in lounge threads and almost nowhere else on FT, except maybe a contest thread in Community. Why is my post in Omni, which I spent a good deal of time researching and writing, helping another member valued less by the community than someone simply posting a "good morning" in a lounge thread? IMHO, all lounge threads should be moved to the social area mentioned above.

  • If we don't want to reward Omni P/R-only posters with titles/post count, do not allow them to count in Omni P/R and remove the posts from their count. The vast majority of those people do not post anywhere else on FT and only go into to FT to troll. Many of them are the reason the Omnis have such a bad reputation.

  • It has been said that Omni is one of the most popular forums on FT. If that is the case, why are the people posting there treated like second class citizens?

Thank you for brining this motion forward ^^
I think that Mary has some very good points. I've learned as much good stuff on Omni as I have on any other forum. But I also understand why people wouldn't want the counting threads and the like to count.

I think that I support OMNI counting because it eliminates a disparity within the community. I've not been here very long but I think that many of the high post count people who've been here a long time have post counts that include Onmi posts from the time before Omni counting was stopped. That creates a potentially false image of the value of "older" contributor vs a newer one. But then this is also an argument to avoid linking post count to contributor value (which is what makes MilePoint's "like" system a good idea in theory).

I wish there were a way to separately state the counts. It would be nice to have a "fluff" count and a "real" count.

Thanks for bringing this forward. I think that it's a great follow-up to Omni masking.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 9:54 am
  #23  
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FWIW, here's my post in the private TB forum:

Originally Posted by Cholula
My rational for favoring restoring OMNI post count is in part due to the lounge threads which are numerous and 98% OMNI-like in their content IMO.

Also, both a member's post count and Evangelist status "ain't what it used to be" IMO. Randy ran enough contests in CBuzz! before he left that some folks were able to rack up over ten thousand posts in just a few weeks and those posts still stand.

The post-inflating barn door has been opened long enough and in enough places here on FT that I don't see that restoring post count in the OMNI's...the most popular forum on FT....is going to make a whole lot of difference in the scheme of things.

This is a motion that, while I favor it somewhat, is not a major issue for me. I rarely ever post in the OMNI's but I do make note of comments from the regulars there and this seems to be something that most favor.

So since I really don't care a lot one way or the other but am aware of a number of folks who favor it, my plans are to vote in favor of the motion.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 9:55 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by Mary2e
The Talk Board, by virtue of allowing images in Omni and stating it was to be treated like the rest of FT, already decided that Omni was just the same as the rest of FT.
Sorry, I don't read it that way at all. The resolution says simply "Allow Images in both OMNI and OMNI/PR." It may be the case that some people justified their arguments in favor of the resolution by saying that "Omni was just the same as the rest of FT," but it certianly wasn't part of the resolution so I don't see how it serves as a "precedent" that OMNI must now be treated exactly like the rest of FT. And if we want to go down that road, how can you claim OMNI is "the same" as the rest of FT when it, like some other boards but not others, are restricted?

Again, if you want to make the case that OMNI posts should be allowed to count, that's fine, but then I suggest you make the case on its own merits rather than pleas for consistency.

As well, what does Dining Buzz have to do with the core mission of this site?
Part of traveling to other places is eating in restaurants, sampling the local cuisine, etc.

The arguments presented are listed as examples of different treatments for the same type posts. That is inconsistent and sends mixed messages.
What's the mixed message? As our Founding Father wrote:

FlyerTalk's original mission and intent was to serve as a place where frequent travelers could exchange, in a positive manner, information and opinions about frequent flyer miles and points and the greater topic of travel. This is still our mission and we want to acknowledge those members who contribute to making FlyerTalk the leading online community of frequent travelers. OMNI, as many of you know, is more of a member requested sideline, and while it serves to build community bonds, it certainly veers from the core FlyerTalk topics.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 9:58 am
  #25  
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If you would like to discuss this in further detail, there is a thread in Omni where I would gladly provide more details and rationale.

I will not take up more space in this thread going back and forth over things that have been stated numerous times in other threads about Omni and the way it is treated.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 10:31 am
  #26  
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I support Omni posts counting, but realize it's not the end of the world if they don't. EOW only occurs if FT ceases to exist at all

This topic has come up before, & at dif times Omni posts have counted/not counted, but the fact that it has come up & people do feel strongly about it & being a rep of TB & feeling it deserved further consideration, I decided to make the proposal.

In doing some homework (aka, reading the current discussion thread as well as going back & reading public & private TB discussion threads re: the topic from a few years ago), I came across the following by wr_schwab, which made me think more favorably re: Omni posts counting/he made good points (as have others).

"I agree with the motion to include OMNI posts in post counts.

Well it comes down to a couple of reasons.

There has been arguments in past debates, and I am sure they will occur again, that people use the post count as a measure of how much experience they have on a given topic.

I have been a member of too many different forums to count on a wide variety of topics since I first logged onto the Internet many years ago. It has been my experience, is that if you spend any time at all on any forum you quickly learn who are the knowledgable people on that topic, and which ones are full of themselves, regardless of how many posts they actually have.

FlyerTalk is a very diverse community, full of a wide array of people each of which have different opinions and positions on just about everything. We have some people who post a lot on the USAir forum, others on the Delta forum, others on the CommunityBuzz, and believe it or not we even have people who post alot on OMNI

Part of being a community is to help ensure that there is a thread that binds us all together. For many of this, it is the love of travel. Others, it might be a good debate on the merits or faults of the TSA or it might involve the "Lost" 2008 season and the affect of the writer's strike will have on it.

The post count helps unify the community as a whole because it provides a record of how active you have been in the community. It means nothing else, well it might mean that you have a lot of time to spare if it is really high, but it doesn't mean anything truely important. A community that the only thing that I am reasonably certain about its members is our collective obsession about counting miles and points.

Like it or not, OMNI is part of the FT Community. It is like the bar in some back alley on the wrong side of the tracks. Everyone knows it is there, and some people would bulldoze the entire area to get rid of it if they could. Since it is part of the FT Community, why should someone's contribution there not count towards the total?

Well, it has been said that OMNI doesn't advance FT primary mission. Well, maybe that is true, but at the same time you can say that about Only Randy Petersen, Technical Issues, & Suggestions. Their primary focus is not travel related. Their primary focus is something else, in this case helping to improve FT, yet we count those posts because we recognize that there is a benefit to having them and to recognize a member's participation in those areas.

OMNI serves a purpose as well, it is the escape valve for everything else. In the time I have been a member of FT, I have met a number of different people at FT. As much as I hate to admit it, neither them or I can talk about travel 100% of the time. Does that mean I should go somewhere else to talk about the new Star Trek movie?

No, I take the conversation to OMNI where I can talk about it with the people I have meet in the travel forums on FT, so you can see it does serve a purpose and we should continue to recognize their participation in the community.

There is what is known as OMNI Waste of Time games. You know the ones, count down from 100,000, Who Will Be The Next FlyerTalk Member To Post? An OMNI Game...the ones that can be downright annoying at times, but incredibly useful when you are sitting in an airport trying to kill some time. Again, they serve a purpose. Should these posts counts?

I look at these posts as being the OMNI equivalent of the The 6969 post club! and the various Happy Birthday threads in CommunityBuzz. Are they annoying? I think both these type of threads in CommunityBuzz and in OMNI are annoying at times. Do I think that should count towards the post total? I think it would be hypocritical of me to suggest otherwise. Just because I don't like a certain aspect of it, doesn't mean we should through the baby out with the bathwater."


Cheers.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 10:43 am
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by as219
What's the mixed message? As our Founding Father wrote:
Yawn. The guy seems to be long gone (his profile indicates that his last activity was "Apr 17, 11 10:39 pm.").

Why anyone cares what he thinks about a place he has apparently abandoned is beyond me.

In any event, and back to the topic at hand, I say let all posts count or don't let any of them count. I've posted more fluff stuff in a lounge thread than in OMNI and get credit for it, and I've posted more substantive stuff in a lounge thread than in OMNI and had the post deleted due to alleged "post padding." There's apparently no rationale behind which post is worthy of a post count beyond "Someone just wants it to be that way," which doesn't seem to be particularly justifiable when the "someone" or "someones" have, for all intents and purposes, moved on to other places.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 10:48 am
  #28  
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I do not understand this... just make both forums parent forums and not subforums... and they should be able to be treated differently.

Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
Just for clarification. If this motion pasts, it applies to both of the Omni forums. As mentioned by IB-Dick in the former discussion thread, there is no way for the software to count one subforum but not the other.

Cheers.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 10:49 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by Mary2e
If you would like to discuss this in further detail, there is a thread in Omni where I would gladly provide more details and rationale.

I will not take up more space in this thread going back and forth over things that have been stated numerous times in other threads about Omni and the way it is treated.
I don't even know how to respond to this. I was under the impression that this thread was specifically designed to discuss this topic in further detail. Apparently I was mistaken.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 10:54 am
  #30  
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I say allow them to count.....OMNI is enough of a red headed step child (read dumping ground) as it is.
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