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I'm a late-comer to the discussion. but read through all the posts. I have attended many DOs, the Chicago Seminar, and both SMDs. Will admit that from time to time I have wondered about the sponsorships about the time it changed from a group of volunteers to (fill-in-the-blanks) foundation/organization/etc.
In my mind a DO is something organized by a group of people for the benefit of others, in which everyone shares the costs - totally nonprofit. A variation is when a DO involves interaction with experts/speakers/etc. In that case I would expect that those people would be compensated in some way. In effect the DO is hiring the person to perform some functions. And there would be full disclosure about the arrangement - a fee, a free room, airfare, whatever. (Some speakers actually may choose to not accept any compensation.) The tricky part is when a DO is organized ostensibly by individuals but in fact by a foundation/organization/etc. This is also the situation when "profit" may be had, maybe in terms of public awareness of the foundation/organization or other "marketing" gains. When that happens the key point is full disclosure of that relationship and full disclosure of the foundation/organization's structure and membership. I think a working solution has already been suggested - that a DO is defined as an event run by volunteers in which all costs are shared and all financial info is made known to participants. It may appear in the community forum. - that an event run by volunteers under the auspices of or related to a foundation/organization not use the term "Do". They also may appear in the community forum if they are non-profit with full disclosure of the relationships and financial arrangements. Guess my own personal take is that full disclosure goes a long way towards dispelling misgivings. ------ And a big thank you to all the organizers of the DOs i have been to and especially to the Chicago mileage run seminar and the SMD Do's. I am in awe of the organizers' efforts! |
Originally Posted by Jenbel
(Post 16050656)
As a moderator in that forum, I can say we've reviewed those thread in light of the one complaint we've received and our decision to allow those threads to stand remains.
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So I see where the Virginia FTU Seminars have somewhere between 650 and 800 attendees with a six-figure-ish budget.
Just thought I drop in for a little 'I told you so!' action. @:-):D ...or does someone still want to maintain that the seminars are not commercial events? |
Is that really any different than the Chicago Seminar that's posted in Community? It's $85 a head and they have space for 250-300 people.
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Originally Posted by kokonutz
(Post 20407905)
So I see where the Virginia FTU Seminars have somewhere between 650 and 800 attendees with a six-figure-ish budget.
Just thought I drop in for a little 'I told you so!' action. @:-):D ...or does someone still want to maintain that the seminars are not commercial events?
Originally Posted by tom911
(Post 20408152)
Is that really any different than the Chicago Seminar that's posted in Community? It's $85 a head and they have space for 250-300 people.
* Full disclosure. I do not organize the event, but have agreed each year to chair the charity raffle. BTW - if anyone has any items they'd like to donate as prizes for this year's raffle, please PM me :) Cheers. |
a. Commercial posts. Posts containing promotional messages for commercial products or services - including but not limited to Internet sites, business advertisements and solicitations to donate miles or points – are prohibited and will be removed. FlyerTalk is not a marketplace and nothing is to be offered for sale or conditioned on an exchange of money or barter. Nothing in this rule is intended to prohibit exchange of travel coupons as allowed by the rules of Coupon Connection. If you spot a commercial post, please report it.
Hm. I am thinking that applies to blogs that earn up to $300 per affiliate credit card link application as well as the seminars. Commercialism has crept around here. :( |
Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
(Post 20408238)
Do we really care what MP/FTU does? Diff IBB & different venture.
Originally Posted by kokonutz
(Post 20408984)
... as well as the seminars.
Commercialism has crept around here. :( |
Originally Posted by kokonutz
(Post 20407905)
So I see where the Virginia FTU Seminars have somewhere between 650 and 800 attendees with a six-figure-ish budget.
Just thought I drop in for a little 'I told you so!' action. @:-):D ...or does someone still want to maintain that the seminars are not commercial events? Do the numbers that koko cited equate to profits? I don't know, but I would hope so. I would also hope that any FTer does well financially in all of his endeavors. If that means there is mention of them on FT, so be it. I don't even see it as a price that we pay -- in fact, it is a bonus that we get. The more information available to us about anything travel related, the better off we all are. Just one small example: I will be spending a week in LAS in May. I had a reservation at a Total Rewards casino for an excellent price ($54 for the entire week!) Then a thread was started about the Tropicana, which is now a Hilton Doubletree. Much of what was posted there was negative, but as a Tropicana rep got involved, things started to change. In response to an e-mail which I sent her, she put me in touch with a casino host and I found that I would be gettng an even better deal by staying there, so I switched my reservation. The Tropicana rep was definitely posting for commercial purposes. Still, I benefited from it. Any time that we are given more knowledge about something connected with travel, we come out ahead. |
This thread reads like an old yearbook you come across when sorting out your attic... including the moment when you think 'why on earth did I hang out with those kids?' :cool::D
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Originally Posted by oliver2002
(Post 20410961)
This thread reads like an old yearbook you come across when sorting out your attic
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Originally Posted by Dovster
(Post 20410443)
Personally, I would like to congratulate the organizers of the Virginia FTU Seminars on their success and wish them even better luck in the future.
Do the numbers that koko cited equate to profits? I don't know, but I would hope so. I would also hope that any FTer does well financially in all of his endeavors. If that means there is mention of them on FT, so be it. I don't even see it as a price that we pay -- in fact, it is a bonus that we get. The more information available to us about anything travel related, the better off we all are. Just one small example: I will be spending a week in LAS in May. I had a reservation at a Total Rewards casino for an excellent price ($54 for the entire week!) Then a thread was started about the Tropicana, which is now a Hilton Doubletree. Much of what was posted there was negative, but as a Tropicana rep got involved, things started to change. In response to an e-mail which I sent her, she put me in touch with a casino host and I found that I would be gettng an even better deal by staying there, so I switched my reservation. The Tropicana rep was definitely posting for commercial purposes. Still, I benefited from it. Any time that we are given more knowledge about something connected with travel, we come out ahead. I am a travel agent, so allow me to provide links to all of my charter offerings. That helps you get a better deal! I am a used car salesman, so I am going to post daily specials on cherry 2002 Chevy Azecs to help you get a better deal. Heck, let's just rename FlyerTalk Craig'sTalk to help us all get better deals. @:-) Links to seminars and many blogs are in direct violation of the TOS. So we have three choices: continue to look the other way and pretend like the issue does not exist, change the TOS to make it more nuanced, or start enforcing the TOS as it relates to links to these commercial points and miles service providers. |
Originally Posted by kokonutz
(Post 20411800)
And the line is drawn...where? Hey, I have a Tumi bag posted on eBay. Let me load up the travel accessories forum with direct links. That helps you get a better deal.
I am a travel agent, so allow me to provide links to all of my charter offerings. That helps you get a better deal! I am a used car salesman, so I am going to post daily specials on cherry 2002 Chevy Azecs to help you get a better deal. Heck, let's just rename FlyerTalk Craig'sTalk to help us all get better deals. @:-) Links to seminars and many blogs are in direct violation of the TOS. So we have three choices: continue to look the other way and pretend like the issue does not exist, change the TOS to make it more nuanced, or start enforcing the TOS as it relates to links to these commercial points and miles service providers. The eBay/Craigslist analogy is just silly in my opinion. Cheers. |
Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
(Post 20411914)
Perhaps you should have a discussion w/ the Community Director re: your concerns?
The eBay/Craigslist analogy is just silly in my opinion. Cheers. It IS a silly analogy. Because promotional messages for those types of commercial products or services would get the poster punished. But the fact stands that we wink and nod at the advertising of two types of commercial products/services here on FT: seminars and blogs. There may be good reason for that, but to the extent that we do it, it should be codified in the TOS not just a random ad hoc exemption from the TOS. |
Originally Posted by kokonutz
(Post 20411978)
But the TB makes recommendations to the CD with regard to the TOS. @:-)
It IS a silly analogy. Because promotional messages for those types of commercial products or services would get the poster punished. But the fact stands that we wink and nod at the advertising of two types of commercial products/services here on FT: seminars and blogs. There may be good reason for that, but to the extent that we do it, it should be codified in the TOS not just a random ad hoc exemption from the TOS. Cheers. |
I have disagreed with koko throughout this thread, but now I want to agree with him -- even though his post was made yesterday in another thread:
Originally Posted by kokonutz
(Post 20405501)
Again, blogs are commercial service providers to the points and miles community. FlyerTalk is an IBB created to talk about commercial service providers to the points and miles community. To me, this is one of the biggest no-brainers in some time. |
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