Originally Posted by kokonutz

This is the biggest issue facing FT and must be a top priority of the next TB since the current TB punted on it.

The web has evolved. So has the way that information is being monetized on it.

And of course, some have had dollar signs in their eyes ever since Randy sold FlyerTalk to IB for millions of dollars.

The next TB must, in consultation with the posters, make some tough but necessary changes to how we treat and organize efforts that both border and blatantly cross into commercial ventures.

I've been banging my head against this particular wall for about 8 months now. The bad news is that my head is bleeding. The good news is that it is finally dawning on more and more posters that there are people who come to FT for more than community, points and miles. They are here for those things, too, but also to build brands, make a buck and get free schwag like top tier statuses for themselves and be flown around the country as 'experts' so they can drive more and more eyes and ultimately dollars to their brand.

I don't have all the answers. But I do know that a healthy discussion about this needs to take place asap. And I do have a notion of an outline of what I think will fix this creeping commercialism:

1) Admit we have a problem

2) Categorize the level of commercialization taking place, eg
- Is this brand-building
- Is this profit-making
- Is the profit realized or given to charity
- Is this a purely classic commercial venture
- etc

3) Create forums for each category

I think there IS a place for the MegaDos and KVSs and Seminars of the world. But those types of things are various shades of commercial.

Some really great ideas have been talked about on the TB topic forum and in the community thread about the commercialization of Dos. That conversation must be formalized and continue until a reasonable and fair solution is reached.

This is obviously an area where the TB and Mods should work together so that everyone has a thorough understanding of what belongs where.

We really, really need to get to work on this.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I don't have a problem at all with commercialization. I have no problem with the Seminar DOs, for example -- what I have a problem with is when people say, "This isn't a commercial venture" and they then play a game of verbal Twister to try to make their obviously commercial venture that's clearly brand building seem less like one. In the words of the prophet Judge Judy, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

The biggest problem with roping off sections of FT for commercial ventures is this -- there's an implied notion then that these people and ventures have been vetted and approved by FT. Under no circumstances could we allow that to be the message, implied or otherwise. It would have to be a "caveat emptor" section of the site since we do not need to have MOD/TB/other resources devoted to checking into the legitimacy of these commercial ventures.

If someone wants to use a signature to promote themselves or a bidness? Fine. I can turn off or look past signatures (or pass judgment on the person putting that signature in place). A board for commercial ventures? We need to be really careful.

Originally Posted by kokonutz

Again, this is NOT my proposal, exactly. Just the approach that I think that makes the most sense. I am open to other ways to approach the issue, and am most emphatically simply insisting that the next TB needs to have a formal discussion about it and address the issue.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Who do you think would make those decisions (setting the categories and then lumping the ventures into one of those categories)? TB? Mods? A new group?

Anything other than the status quo (and no, I don't think the status quo is acceptable) requires some thought, otherwise, we'll end up creating a lot of work for people who may not want the work.

Originally Posted by dinoscool3

If its a signature, fine (especially if it's just stating: "I work for so and so" I.e. airline, hotel, and concierge services)


If someone makes a thread for a commercial, no.

Originally Posted by jackal

I appreciate that FlyerTalk's rules--and more importantly, the FlyerTalk community itself--value the purity of information and the lack of commercialization in the general forums. No one wants to look for information only to have to wonder if it's tainted by some ulterior motivation. I support that entirely.

The Web is changing, though. Not only do companies expect to be able to use social media, consumers expect to be able to find companies on social media outlets. As long as it's properly organized and handled well, it's a win-win: consumers get to interact with companies on a more personal level, affecting those companies' products and development cycles, while the company gets to benefit from the increased exposure. We've seen it in all manner of companies, from large airline frequent flyer programs (anyone on FlyerTalk would tell you they appreciate it when an airline has an inside representative on FlyerTalk) all the way down to niche providers of travel services like ExpertFlyer or even one I just used a few minutes ago, BiddingTraveler.

The best thing to do now is to acknowledge that changes in the Web are happening and embrace those changes. FlyerTalk can do so with some dedicated places for this kind of dialogue. Segmenting that activity into its own dedicated area will both allow an entirely new way for FlyerTalk members to engage with vendors of services that make traveling easier (in the same way ExpertFlyer and BiddingTraveler do) without "tainting" the regular forums with commercial activity. It's the future of the Web and thus the future of FlyerTalk.

Originally Posted by goalie

I disagree as with saying "I work for Hilton", to me that implies the member could/might be here in an official capacity and as such, get hit with PM's from other members about issues they might be having with (as in my example) Hilton or to take it a step farther (further?), let's say someone works for Hilton as noted above-What if the person is not on the up and up in terms of offering corporate goodies for a price (or vv with a member contacting this person looking to buy 'stuff"). Yeah I know it's a stretch but it could happen and where ianal, it could have negative implications on F/T. There are official company reps here and they are identified by a green handle for a reason.

Originally Posted by joshwex90

This is why people who work for a company should, and many do, have a disclaimer, such as "My views/opinions do not necessarily reflect those of JetBlue, my employer"

Originally Posted by kokonutz

This is the biggest issue facing FT and must be a top priority of the next TB since the current TB punted on it.

The web has evolved. So has the way that information is being monetized on it.

Originally Posted by kokonutz

...am most emphatically simply insisting that the next TB needs to have a formal discussion about it and address the issue.