Question 7: When Disagreeing with Randy?

Old Oct 31, 08, 4:34 pm
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Question 7: When Disagreeing with Randy?

submitted by magiciansampras
I'd like to know what the TalkBoard should do when it disagrees with Randy on something.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 4:46 pm
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Originally Posted by Randy Petersen View Post
submitted by magiciansampras
I'd like to know what the TalkBoard should do when it disagrees with Randy on something.
If Randy has considered the matter based on all available information and made a decision, the TalkBoard should consider that decision final. Further discussion or dissent is disrespectful to Randy and a waste of everyone's time.

If circumstances change significantly, the TalkBoard can consider re-opening discussion.

You know:
God, give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, courage to change the things that should be changed, and the wisdom to distinguish the one from the other.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 4:50 pm
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This is a great question!

I think that disagreeing with Randy is ok. We should voice our opinion in the proper forum - regarding the merits of the issue, not Randy himself.

True, you may find it necessery to say 10 Hail Marys after this...

but seriously - is is important to have an open communication between the talk board and Randy regarding the issues. Mr. Peterson of course has his own rights and powers and is always honest about his communications (for example the way he did come and explain when he had to remove a member from the talk board... While not giving the exact reasons he did communicate that he did not do it lightly.. )

My bottom line is (and i promise that if this wasn't after 1am where i'm located i would have written a much better phrased answer) that as long as there is open communications on the merits of an issue, a debate should always be welcomed - regardless of the person.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 4:59 pm
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Why shouldn't it be anything less than okay? Everyone here, I hope, who has put their name in the TalkBoard hat understands how things are done with TalkBoard.

I don't expect Randy to agree 100% with what I or the TalkBoard would say, and if there's a disagreement, and if I feel adamant about something, I would communicate with Randy further about it to perhaps solicit feedback on his thinking, reply if it's warranted, and accept his final decision.

Being on TalkBoard should come with thick skin, including the ability to realize there are going to be disagreements.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 5:01 pm
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Flyertalk is not a democracy but a benevolent dictatorship headed by Randy. TalkBoard serves strictly in an advisory function. That said, the TalkBoard as well as individual members may certainly voice their opinions to Randy is a respectful manner. While Randy generally makes good decisions, there has been some that I did not agree with initially but have come around to his view and a very few where we still disagree.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 5:16 pm
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There is no such thing as disagreement in TalkBoard, its just folk with different views....

If TB have a different view from Randy then they should talk about it in a civil manner and look at all the options then debate it.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 5:17 pm
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Having disagreed with Randy on a number of issues over the years (most recently this very afternoon via PM!), I can vouch for the fact that he is very good about treating everyone's input as valued before making decisions. He doesn't victimise people for dissent. If someone disagrees with him on any issue, they should make their disagreement known in a civil fashion.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 5:20 pm
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It depends on how much it disagrees & whether its the TB as a whole or just one member...

If the TB, as a group, disagrees with Randy, then it should attempt to persuade Randy through logicial & rational reasoning. If its one member, they should probably get the support of other members before going forth.

I also think its important to recognize that the TB serves at Randy's pleasure and whereas we're an elected board to represent member intersest, it's an advisory board and Randy has the ability (and wisdom) to do as he sees fit. Now, there may be some things that we are in fundamental disagreement with & Randy may not consult with TB on all matters (such as the recent OMNI changes) - but it's still his proverbial sandbox.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 6:07 pm
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That's easy: respectfully, but directly, bring the disagreement to Randy, along with a clear and sound explanation of the basis for the disagreement.

FlyerTalk is Randy's sandbox, and I am grateful that he allows me to play in it. However, I am here precisely because he's created an amazing on-line community. If he should take a step that, we think, is contrary to best interests of the FlyerTalk community, it is essential that we let him know. And, of course, the fact that there is a TalkBoard at all confirms Randy's desire to receive input from the membership. I've certainly never been shy about communicating my thoughts directly to Randy via PM as a member. There's no reason to be any more reticent as a TalkBoard representative.

TalkBoard shouldn't be (and, I don't think has been) a rubber stamp for Randy, and I sincerely doubt Randy wants it to be.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 6:18 pm
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It's ok to disagree with Randy.

However, there are times when he makes a call and we should respect that decision, especially if it's a relatively trivial or cosmetic matter like the blue banner for the options.

If it's an important matter, the TalkBoard collectively or any TalkBoard member should respectfully communicate that decision to Randy.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 7:15 pm
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Someone said in a recent chat, "FT is a benevolent dictatorship". I think TB's role is to stand up to anyone (including Randy) on any issue that the community feels strongly about. But we also need to be able to deal with Randy disagreeing on an issue and choosing a different direction.

That being said, I haven't seen too many things that Randy hasn't been willing to listen to us on.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 7:29 pm
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Flip answer - I disagreee with Randy all the time!

More realistically - I am generally in agreement with Randy on major issues, but he and I have had healthy respectful disagreements over the years on minor issues. I have changed my views on some things thanks to his input. For ex. I used to be one of the factions that would like to have OMNI just disappear - but Randy's obvious affection for the forum really swayed me and now I enjoy it.

However, that's not the same question as what should the TALK BOARD do if they disagree with Randy. As others have stated, if several TB members disagree with a decision I expect they will be vocal in asking Randy to reconsider. In my experience with Randy and living with his decisions, I have found him to a thoughtful concerned decision maker who considers many points of view before deciding. (sometimes to members' frustration when a decision is anxiously expected)

But it also depends on the disagreement - as I have mentioned in my platform, we are navigating strange waters with the IB/FT relationship. Randy obviously makes some decisions on his own but some may be mitigated or affected by IB's ownership, and that is a level of confusion I hope to help work on if I am elected.

Last edited by squeakr; Oct 31, 08 at 11:29 pm Reason: spelling
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Old Oct 31, 08, 7:55 pm
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Leatherheadiowa's reply.

Originally Posted by Randy Petersen View Post
submitted by magiciansampras
I'd like to know what the TalkBoard should do when it disagrees with Randy on something.
I hate to sound like I live in the world of a dictatorship but, when the boss says jump, I say, how high?

I work in a government business where I work as part of a team that relies on the judgment of our team leader. In my career, taking the chance of questioning a decision or an order can lead to injury or death of one of my team members.

Not saying that FT is a matter of life & death but, a decision is a decision. The only time something should questioned on FT in my opinion is, when a financial burden may be incurred or safety of a member is at risk.

Lets all just try and get along and use this resource the way it was meant to.
If you are a member to be a contributing member and think along my lines, I would appreciate your vote.
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Old Oct 31, 08, 8:54 pm
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It's ok to disagree with the one or other person from time to time.

The Talk Board is there to express the opinion in the best interest of the FlyerTalk members and each TB members individual belief.

Think of Talk Board like Randys advisors when it comes to FT. His eyes and ears everyday in each little subforum. Every little aspect will lead to a reasonable decision, everyone who knows Randy will agree that something as big as Flyertalk doesnt work as a 100% independent democracy.

Randy is the one with the final decision. But these decisions are certainly being made in consideration of the Talk Board advise.
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Old Nov 1, 08, 3:41 am
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