STC will be terminated in 2Q 2006

Old Sep 10, 05, 3:59 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by Glenlivet
Definitively NOT a smart move!
Circle members will for sure check with other carriers for matching status
How can M&M believe they will follow like cheeps?
Without being offered Hon Circle I do not see a lot of Circle going to M&M

Glenlivet
did you ever compared Swiss Circle with HON? I think the benefits you can get from HON is by far better than the ones from Swiss Circle. As well it's a bit harder to qualify yourself for HON..
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Old Sep 10, 05, 4:00 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Kerstin Ruf
_______
BTW: I have reservations to us ďto mergeĒ in all and everything what worked between LH & LX nowadays. As LH bought LX, therefore I would say itís a takeover, an acquisition but not a merger. From April 2006 onwards, M&M will be the FFP of LX and the one or the other feature of the STC should be (re-)introduced in M&M, but thatís it. Please donít compare AF/KL with LH/LX, itís completely different.
Can you highlight the differences ? It's different as FB is different from both FD and F+, but regarding AF/KL and LH/LX, it does not seem that different ?
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Old Sep 10, 05, 6:04 pm
  #33  
 
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Kerstin,

first, let me thank you for providing all this information.

Originally Posted by Kerstin Ruf
* To transfer the balance of your STC into your (new) M&M account (M&M TOS).
Do you know how the expiration of the miles will be handled? Will they expire 36 months after they've been originally earned, will all transferred miles expire 36 months after the date of transfer to M&M or will there be some special rule for transferred miles?
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Old Sep 10, 05, 11:56 pm
  #34  
 
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I wonder if they're going to be generous - for example, if I am Silver in both programs but would have been gold / sen if the 2 airlines had had a single FFP for the last 12 months, will they give me the higher status?

A second question - will we have any hope of earning STC miles on other *A airlines before this change comes into effect?

I doubt it but I live in hope!
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Old Sep 11, 05, 1:18 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by AndrewC
I wonder if they're going to be generous - for example, if I am Silver in both programs but would have been gold / sen if the 2 airlines had had a single FFP for the last 12 months, will they give me the higher status?
Well, from the costumer side it would make sense but I really doubt that LH/LX will offer that...
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Old Sep 11, 05, 4:09 am
  #36  
 
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LH HON Circle is much better than LX Circle if all benefits are considered and qualification for HON is a little harder. Also LH wants to limit its HON customer base to a low number to make sure the service level can be kept at an appropriate, high level.
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Old Sep 11, 05, 4:17 am
  #37  
 
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Note that a fair percentage of LX Circle memberships were not "earned" via flight activities, but given out to "decision makers" that have a significant impact on LX Business'. That includes politicians and top executives of large international companies ( = key accounts). I am not sure if LH HON serves the same purpose or if Lufthansa has some other way to ensure these people's loyalty?
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Old Sep 11, 05, 4:21 am
  #38  
 
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You are right, airoli, that this is a key difference. LH HON you can get only by flying 600000 miles in two calender years.
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Old Sep 11, 05, 4:20 pm
  #39  
 
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While I agree, of course, that is is an absolute catastrophe for most LX frequent flyers, I also agree that this was likely to happen from the beginning of the takeover.

The most important part will be what, if any, STC rules will be incorporated in M&M for Swiss flights or even in general.

Personally, the likelihood of me switching to Air Berlin for most of flighs to Germany is very high. AB awards full 1000 miles per ZRH-HAM. For longhauls, I will likely dump LX (and also not switch to LH) ... Will have to do some thinking, I guess.

@Kerstin: Thanks for sharing the information you have provided. One question: What will likely happen with STC elite members that do not requalify this year. Will only earned STC status for 2006 be matched?
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Old Sep 11, 05, 10:28 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Kerstin Ruf
Sorry for mot being precise enough. As with most FFPs, only one account per person may be opened. If you are already a M&M member, you have to transfer all STC miles into this account.
M&M allows you two maintain two or more accounts with them if you want to. The prime reason for this is to separate miles earned flying for your employer and flown privately.

This became a big issue in the news when german MPs used miles earned during official work for private purposes. Also big companies like Siemens require employees to maintain two accounts and surrender miles earned flying on company business for future company travel.
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Old Sep 12, 05, 3:04 am
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by Glenlivet
Definitively NOT a smart move!
Circle members will for sure check with other carriers for matching status
How can M&M believe they will follow like cheeps?
Without being offered Hon Circle I do not see a lot of Circle going to M&M

Glenlivet
But it would create an imballance in The LH HON programme bearing in mind that there are 2300 HON worldwide and AFAIK 1200 - 1500 LX Circle members.
Meaning that the membership level would go up by 60 % plus and most likely the infrastructure of the LH HON programme would not be able to handle those numbers. I am not to sure about the benefits of LX Circle, but from my understanding from a mate who is both, there seems to be a vast difference between the two ( in favour of LH) and hence it would not seem right simply to make Circle into HON Circle. But as said the comparison is based on hearsay - hence it can be wrong.

Cheers

Thomas
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Old Sep 12, 05, 4:42 am
  #42  
 
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It seems to me that if one looks closely the qualification requirements for LX circle and LH HON are not that different. The main difference is (or used to be) that LX circle is by invitation only, but the minimum criteria to be considered for invitation are, in my recollection, 200000 club miles/year, of which at least 2/3 in paid F/C. So let's say one flies 65000 in Y and 135000 in C. Since the class factor is 1.5 for LX-C class, these would translate into 90000 actually flown miles, which then would translate into 180000 status miles for M&M. In addition to that we should consider the executive bonus of 25 % which in LH counts towards status. This adds another (90000+65000)/4=38750 miles. The total per year is thus 65000+180000+38750=283750, i.e. 567500 in two years (that is very close to the threshold for HON). Of course all this could be wrong if the requirements for LX circle changed significantly from what I remember them.
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Old Sep 12, 05, 12:52 pm
  #43  
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Originally Posted by ottone
It seems to me that if one looks closely the qualification requirements for LX circle and LH HON are not that different. The main difference is (or used to be) that LX circle is by invitation only, but the minimum criteria to be considered for invitation are, in my recollection, 200000 club miles/year, of which at least 2/3 in paid F/C. So let's say one flies 65000 in Y and 135000 in C. Since the class factor is 1.5 for LX-C class, these would translate into 90000 actually flown miles, which then would translate into 180000 status miles for M&M. In addition to that we should consider the executive bonus of 25 % which in LH counts towards status. This adds another (90000+65000)/4=38750 miles. The total per year is thus 65000+180000+38750=283750, i.e. 567500 in two years (that is very close to the threshold for HON). Of course all this could be wrong if the requirements for LX circle changed significantly from what I remember them.
Thanks Ottone,

Requirements for joining Circle is min. 200,000 miles in a 12 months span, and then to keep it 150,000 miles per calendar year. Obviously the 2/3 in paid C&F still remains.

You can consider that joining Circle is slightly easier (the below calculation are based on C flights only) :
Circle : you will need to fly 233,333 miles over 2 years, i.e. 133,333 x 1.5 = 200,000 1st year + 100,000 x 1.5 = 150,000 2nd year = total 350,000 miles
HON : you will need to fly 240,000 miles over 2 years, i.e. 240,000 x 2 = 480,000 + 25% bonus 120,000 = 600,000 miles

What a difference 6,666 miles!!!

To keep your status the same amount of miles are required:
Circle : 200,000 over 2 years x 1.5 = 300,000 miles
HON : 200,000 x 2 = 400,000 + 50% bonus 200,000 = 600,000 miles

I will say the LX is more restrictive as you cannot have a bad year that you compensate with a good year. You have to fly at least 100,000 miles in C every year, while LH allows you to fly less than 100,000 miles one year and compensate the shortfall next year.

In my case by year end I will have accrued 180,000 base miles (all C), but next year I will still have to fly 100,000 base miles to requality for Circle. If I was HON I would only have to travel 20,000 base miles.

Who says that HON I much more elitist than Circle...
In addition, you are not automatically getting Circle status you need to be approved by the senior management of LX...
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Old Sep 12, 05, 1:46 pm
  #44  
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ottone and Glenlivet - your maths is slightly out. Earning on M&M in C/F is 225% and 325% if FTL/SEN.

So to qualify HON need 267k in C/185k in F flown miles (on LH/LO/OS/UA/AC) over 2 calendar years. Starting from scratch need slightly more due to no 25% status bonus on the first 50k (if German address) or 35k (everywhere else).

Status bonus for HON is 50%, so to requalify need 240k in C/171k in F flown miles (on LH/LO/OS/UA/AC) over 2 calendar years.
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Old Sep 12, 05, 2:10 pm
  #45  
 
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I did not say HON is more elitist,

HON is different and the benefits provided are better, but this is personal taste.
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