LH Takeover: Your fears for LX Travelclub? - Everybody post please

Old Aug 5, 05, 1:45 pm
  #16  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ZRH, Switzerland
Programs: M&M, LHW, Shangri-La.
Posts: 544
Travelclub has managed again and again to attract and keep my business in the past 15 years. If I remember correctly, I was a status member for all the time except for about 3 months this spring. (Back to gold now )

What does Travelclub do and M&M falls short:

1. CREATE EXTRA REVENUE
I created extra revenue on otherwise unsold seats, mostly based on good mileage promos. (Money spent this year on purely "unnecessary" flights: ca CHF 9'000 for the family)
I've never heard of a true MR opportunity on LH.
With a good inventory management, this is a win-win situation. I win a nice first class flight and Swiss wins money on otherwise emtpy seats.

2. KEEP ME LOYAL:
- It kept me completely loyal to Swiss while flying within Europe.
- I've never used a low cost carrier so far.

This only works if there's a reasonable amount of miles for any fare. If the miles go out of the equasion, there's no pain in switching to Air Berlin or the like. And yes, Marvin, they do have an attractive FFP as well. (Just from hear-say, too lazy to look it up myself: 1k miles per leg, 15k miles for a free flight. And free is really free, including the taxes.)

3. MAKE ME A HAPPY CUSTOMER:
- Reasonable to good availability of awards coupled with a nice network & product gave me many a nice journey further in the front of the plane than I could otherwise afford. I'm really thankfull to Swiss(air) for this.


Why the current Travelclub strategy is right for Swiss (and M&M isn't)
...follwing in Marvin's footsteps, I know...

On one hand, I can follow the argumentation that an airline wants to catch and keep the full fare C/F customers with the FFP and does not care about the opportunistic "cheap charleys".

On the other hand, there's also the logic that an effective FFP will allow you to attract business in the tough European market and to price yourself above the competition. You may say that you actually attract the high yielding customers largely by offering the right non-stop destinations, schedule and a good product and not with the FFP.

I don't say either one theory is right or wrong. All I say is they both exist and each FFP is a compromise between those two ideas. I would count Travelclub as following rather the second strategy and I'm happy it does.

M&M clearly follows the first strategy and that's a killer for the european network if you don't have much else ahead of the low costs carriers. And here's my point: LH and BA do have a SIZE that currently allows them to outplay the competition. Swiss is much smaller and risks to loose route by route in the war against the low cost carriers.
Therefore, Swiss NEEDS a more attractive FFP to keep it's european network alive. And let's face it: Without a european network, you can forget most long hauls, too!
Then, it's good bye Swiss and good luck connecting in FRA or MUC.

Trailing off a little: Don't be fooled by smart journalists telling you there will be other carriers jumping in. NEVER EVER! The reason why ZRH still has a lot of long hauls is because it still has a network. Without feeding traffic, 90% of these longs hauls are dead.
For those who don't believe: Do a little research and see how many airlines have tried to start a long haul operation out of GVA. Even US carriers all had to realise that it just doesn't work if you haven't got a critical amount of traffic.

Hopes and wishes
Even if the end of Travelclub should come one day, I hope that LH realises that what strategy is right for LH is not necessarily the best for Swiss. By this, I mean that it CAN make sense to attract low yield passengers and to create extra demand purely by means of the FFP.
The good thing is that there are countless ways to achieve this with promos, rules, fare classes used and so on.
LoungeLizzard is offline  
Old Aug 6, 05, 9:29 am
  #17  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: GRZ/TXL/BKK
Programs: IHG Rewards Club Platinum,AB Top Bonus , LH Miles & More, Virgin Flying Club
Posts: 95
Thumbs up Thanks f4free!!!

Hello Flytalkers,

thanks for f4free. I post my Thread again in correct English, then i have only 12 years in English language. Sorry when`s sometimes is hard to understand.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi there,

I am a Member of Swiss Travel Club and Austrian Miles & More.

The problem is that the fare classes for mileage accrual in Swiss Travel Club flying Lufthansa are treated totally different from accrual in Austrian Miles & More / Lufthansa when flying on a Swiss paid fare. Check for yourself how many miles you get for a Swiss flight in Miles & More, and how many miles you get for a Lufthansa flight in Swiss Travel Club.

But not only Swiss and Miles & More give very little miles for certain Lufthansa fares, but also the other frequent flyer programs of Star Alliance give everybody the same Mileage for Lufthansa flights. This is with Thai Royal Orchid Plus or others.

This is a Star Alliance Mileage Problem not an Airline Program Problem.

But which program is really good today? It looks like all give very little miles on L and T. Only 123 MILES. Other Alliances like Oneworld or Skyteam give 25% or 100% on the cheapest fare.

The question is which programs offer the best value today on low fares?

Your opinions are welcome.

Nice greetz from Austria

Sven
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Old Aug 6, 05, 10:41 am
  #18  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Nairobi
Programs: LX, AZ, BA, LH, SA
Posts: 313
I'm quite surprised nobody is spending a word on the benefits of M&M vs. STC, for instance, longhaul business class earns 2x miles with LH rather than 1.5x with LX, or 3x rather than 2x miles in First class.
hilltopper is offline  
Old Aug 6, 05, 2:34 pm
  #19  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ZRH, Switzerland
Programs: M&M, LHW, Shangri-La.
Posts: 544
Originally Posted by hilltopper
I'm quite surprised nobody is spending a word on the benefits of M&M vs. STC, for instance, longhaul business class earns 2x miles with LH rather than 1.5x with LX, or 3x rather than 2x miles in First class.
I DID spend a few (hundred) words on the different target groups of the two programs. (as did Marvin and others.) While you call it "benefit", I call it "different goal".

@Yak40: You win. I'm only just approaching 1.8 Mio Miles, but I'd be happy if that history can be kept alive.

Last edited by LoungeLizzard; Aug 6, 05 at 2:49 pm
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Old Aug 7, 05, 10:40 am
  #20  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CH, D, USA
Posts: 1,604
Let's keep it coming ...

Thanks to everybody who has posted so far.

While we all may have a feeling this effort may not change anything - the Flyertalk meet in GVA at least gave us the impression that Swiss TC management knows of the importance of the FFP for Swiss, and that they might use this thread to TRY to keep the important benefits alive.

I would like to encourage everybody who hasn't posted yet to add a short comment to the thread. EVEN IF YOUR OPINION IS ALREADY COVERED.

Every FT handle and post in this thread is important. Let's keep this thread alive and thriving!
f4free is offline  
Old Aug 7, 05, 1:49 pm
  #21  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: JNB / HEL
Programs: too many...
Posts: 327
Originally Posted by Marvin
I echo all the above sentiments. Especially the minumum miles and the "member file history" ie. "member since 199x, x.y million miles earned"...
Marvin,

where on the STC website can you obtain the 'member file history' information?

Thanks,
JNBHEL
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Old Aug 7, 05, 3:03 pm
  #22  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: SMV/ZRH
Programs: LX/M&M, UA, AA, AF/KL, SPG Gold
Posts: 671
To me, the most important benefits of STC (that would most likely be gone with M&M) are:

- 100% miles on all fares/1000 mile minimum in Europe
- 8 segment awards
- 20'000-mile awards for intra-european flights (M&M is 30'000, except FlySmart)
- good award availability
- generous promotions
- upgrades with miles from all booking classes (M&M excludes some lower booking classes)
- upgrades with miles at non-prohibitive rates (with M&M, two one-way upgrade awards cost more than an award flight in C on some routes! E.g. a transatlantic upgrade is 50'000 each way, round-trip award flight in C is 90'000)
- mixing different classes for the out- and inbound flights on award itineraries (of course, this can be done with M&M as well, but the award level of the higher class applies to the whole trip)

Last edited by andyZRH; Aug 7, 05 at 4:16 pm
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Old Aug 7, 05, 11:52 pm
  #23  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Austria (Vbg)
Programs: LX SEN, BA GGL/CCR, IC Plat A, HH Dia, Hyatt Glob, Sixt Plat, regularly in FS & RC
Posts: 1,551
Originally Posted by andyZRH
upgrades with miles from all booking classes (M&M excludes some lower booking classes)
Thank you andyZRH for adressing this issue too, how could I forget about it? The possibility to upgrade from all bookings classes with a fair amount of miles is a huge advantage of STC!!!
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Old Aug 8, 05, 12:45 am
  #24  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: ZRH / YUL
Programs: UA, TK , Starwood > Marriott
Posts: 6,678
I completely agree with andyZRH and Frequent_Flyer1 on the upgrade issue!
Originally Posted by JNBHEL
where on the STC website can you obtain the 'member file history' information?
AFAIK, this information is not communicated to the member but only visible to crews (on the so-called CLIP showing all status customers per cabin on each flight) and check-in / call center / etc. agents.
airoli is offline  
Old Aug 8, 05, 1:13 am
  #25  
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
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Originally Posted by airoli
this information is visible to crews (on the so-called CLIP showing all status customers per cabin on each flight) and check-in / call center / etc. agents.
Interesting! Might explain why diligent crew have very ocassionally singled me out in the depths of the Y-cabin to ask if everything is alright

Does the display indicate the "quality" of the miles? i.e. earned for premium-class travel, status miles, bonus miles - (e.g. criss-crossing the Alps on cheap tickets for the 10K promotion etc)?
IAN-UK is offline  
Old Aug 8, 05, 7:22 am
  #26  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Zurich
Programs: LH Sen; US Silver; AA Silver; Hilton Gold
Posts: 105
My STC priorities

Having just achieved STC Gold for the first time (have not been in ZRH for quite a year yet) I don't have a lot of history with either STC or M&M. However, having read the other posts, I would say my two priorities are:

- full mileage on all flights, regardless of price of ticket
- lounge access even when travelling on another carrier


Hurlimann
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Old Aug 8, 05, 8:29 am
  #27  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 178
Mile quality

Originally Posted by IAN-UK
Does the display indicate the "quality" of the miles? i.e. earned for premium-class travel, status miles, bonus miles
Not on the CLIP (Customer Loyalty Information Program) display, that I am aware of - just the (very) grand total earned since the ff's year dot - that and the usual seat / meal preference details, I think there should be one for preferred drink too!

However, the "system" - Octopus, or something, I think it is used to be called under Qualiflyer, can tell the difference between club and bonus miles - for the obvious purpose of club qualification. There used to be a 10,000Club mile "ticker" which credited your bonus every time it was "clocked", they counted the total number of times the x000 mile club bonus was handed out. Now redundant, I assume with the policy of handing out the %-age bonus as you earn it.
I'm also fairly confident that there must be some device for filtering out miles earned from F/A/J/C/D classes from all the rest. - One of the criteria for Circle membership is that 2/3 of the 200000 required must have been earned in C/F. Surely they don't count them by hand...

If you want to know your details, the best bet is probably an able/experienced-looking LX ticket agent (with some time on his/her hands!) at the airport. Many displays available, so I'm told. TCGold line may also oblige you - though I've never tried myself - I just occasionally ask the cabin crew during long haul flights.

Rgds
Marvin

Last edited by Marvin; Aug 8, 05 at 8:38 am Reason: Desperate attempt to make something English-ish out of my scrawlings
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Old Aug 8, 05, 11:22 am
  #28  
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CH, D, USA
Posts: 1,604
Reminder: Please keep on posting your comments ...

I have asked Randy to help us (phone and e-mail) by submitting this thread and a summary of it to LX TC management, and more importantly, to the right people of LH. We will see if he finds the time ...

If you haven't posted yet, please go ahead and put down what parts of the Travelclub program keep you flying LX, and should stay in place in your opinion.

I had intended to let this thread go on for a week or two, but I don't think it makes sense to wait too long after this survey call I got (plus additional research I just did).

If we can change anything, it would IMPO only be realistic before the changes are announced. Or before the final decision is made, which still might not be the case yet.
f4free is offline  
Old Aug 8, 05, 2:08 pm
  #29  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Programs: MMSen, HHonorsGold, Starwood Platinum
Posts: 61
HI to all,
I just return form holiday and see this forum.
As membe rof qualiflyer/tarvelclub since 1992 i am one of the first who join this programm - and be sure for me this loyality was and is important - and as a german citizan i always try to fly swiss and not LH. If they close TC and we must go to M&M i will change my airline - not easy with home airpirt in str.
What is important for me:

1. Getting 100% miles for all flights
2. Having a "easy" chance for lounge access ( in the moment 35000)
3. Nice service on ground and air
4. Good conditions for free tickets

So i hope we have a chance to save our travel club

Greetings
Peter
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Old Aug 8, 05, 2:40 pm
  #30  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: POLAND,WARSAW
Programs: MILES AND MORE FTL
Posts: 30
Thanx To All Tc Members

hi
i just return from holiday in rome
great that somebody make this forum
i have now better idea, to keep ouer TC membership
Everyone who like and enjoy it have to write emails to swiss and lufthansa
please write to them that we dont enjoy and take M&M, and stop fly with Swiss and LH
What is important, all write here
so..we have to keep ouer TC

For me, since im member of TC is important, that i know what i get and what i can spend, not like in M&M
and if i have to take M&M than i stop fl;y with swiss, and start fly with cheap airlines, or take best price from airlines
thats it


greetings
ariel-wawa is offline  

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