Covid19: Swiss refunds after cancellation
Jun 3, 2020, 3:55 am
#481
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
I don’t think refusing to pay your card issuing bank is a good idea. They are just as much victims of Swiss’ illegal actions here.
In my opinion, your response should be quick and aggressive. Engage a lawyer. Have them write to your bank to reopen the case and inform them that Swiss’ actions are indefensible. At the same time have your lawyer issue proceedings against Swiss for recovery of your funds plus legal costs. Also, report Swiss to the regulator in both your country of residence and France, where your journey would have commenced.
In my opinion, your response should be quick and aggressive. Engage a lawyer. Have them write to your bank to reopen the case and inform them that Swiss’ actions are indefensible. At the same time have your lawyer issue proceedings against Swiss for recovery of your funds plus legal costs. Also, report Swiss to the regulator in both your country of residence and France, where your journey would have commenced.
That's interesting, but how will I even know? It's not like the credit agencies send you a notice that your score is about to be lowered and invite you to contest with evidence of having disputed a claim. :/
Jun 3, 2020, 5:19 am
#483
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,163
Sigh... I of course agree with what you guys are saying but engaging a lawyer, preparing a case, etc. of course all takes more time and effort. And in the meantime, I still have to pay off my card or risk damage to my credit score. It just seems unfair that this onus is all on the consumer when it's the vendor that's not delivering on its obligations.
/
/
Jun 3, 2020, 6:14 am
#484
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
A good lawyer specialised in aviation cases should be able to do this on the basis of the information you already gathered for your credit card chargeback. Additionally, your country might have consumer laws which make your bank jointly liable with the airline to refund your money. In the UK this is called a Section 75 claim. In Germany you can also use the fact that in Civil Law you have a Werkvertrag that the airline did not fulfill. And EU261 Article 8, reimbursement will always apply in the case of cancellation by the airline, regardless of underlying reason.
Jun 3, 2020, 6:31 am
#485
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,163
No personal experience but this guy seems to know the business:
https://www.rechteindeutig.de/
https://www.rechteindeutig.de/
Jun 3, 2020, 10:09 am
#486
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
No personal experience but this guy seems to know the business:
https://www.rechteindeutig.de/
https://www.rechteindeutig.de/
FWIW, I was ready to throw in the towel and ask Swiss to rebook me to next year. After reaching them on the phone, they told me the ticket has been 'suspended' for possible 'fraudulent activity', so they won't even rebook me anymore. This is so ridiculous.
Jun 3, 2020, 2:11 pm
#488
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 796
Just as a data point...
We have been quite unreserved in our condemnation of the LH Group (and rightly so) but I think there might be (subtle) differences between how the airlines are treating these refund requests...I had an OS flight which was cancelled by the airline, and about 2.5 months after I submitted the refund request (by phone) I just got an email that I will be refunded. Now, I haven’t checked if my credit card has been refunded so I don’t want to pop the champagne corks yet but I’ll do in the next week or so. While slightly late, it’s a perfectly acceptable timeframe.
Just another detail: about a week before I got another email encouraging me to take a voucher instead of refund but if I still wanted a refund I didn’t have to do anything and it would be processed.
so seems like OS is acting more honorably and LX is being very shady and nefarious.
We have been quite unreserved in our condemnation of the LH Group (and rightly so) but I think there might be (subtle) differences between how the airlines are treating these refund requests...I had an OS flight which was cancelled by the airline, and about 2.5 months after I submitted the refund request (by phone) I just got an email that I will be refunded. Now, I haven’t checked if my credit card has been refunded so I don’t want to pop the champagne corks yet but I’ll do in the next week or so. While slightly late, it’s a perfectly acceptable timeframe.
Just another detail: about a week before I got another email encouraging me to take a voucher instead of refund but if I still wanted a refund I didn’t have to do anything and it would be processed.
so seems like OS is acting more honorably and LX is being very shady and nefarious.
Jun 3, 2020, 3:23 pm
#489
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
To be honest, LX / LH have effectively worn me out by this point and I'm once again leaning toward just not spending a further minute on this matter, not paying the already cancelled US credit card, and being prepared to face whatever consequences may befall me later. These guys win.
Jun 3, 2020, 4:31 pm
#490
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,163
I think you and @Tafflyer are pointing to the same guy, so I will give him a shout if I decide to pursue a legal case.
To be honest, LX / LH have effectively worn me out by this point and I'm once again leaning toward just not spending a further minute on this matter, not paying the already cancelled US credit card, and being prepared to face whatever consequences may befall me later. These guys win.
To be honest, LX / LH have effectively worn me out by this point and I'm once again leaning toward just not spending a further minute on this matter, not paying the already cancelled US credit card, and being prepared to face whatever consequences may befall me later. These guys win.
Jun 4, 2020, 11:56 am
#491
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
To summarize, here's where I'm at:
- Swiss (operating carrier), after my insistence upon my EC261 rights, acknowledged on the phone I'm eligible for a refund but refused to put anything in writing to me. Told me a note has been made in my file so the OTA I purchased the ticket from should be able to submit a refund request.
- Expedia (OTA) confirmed my refund request was submitted on April 7 but I have not seen any $. Tired of waiting, I filed a merchant dispute through my credit card.
- Barclays (credit card issuer), granted and later reversed temporary credit after receiving documentation from LX convincing them I am not owed a refund because ticket is "non-refundable". Ready to throw in the towel on getting a refund, I called Swiss prepared to rebook to a future date.
- Swiss informed me ticket has been "suspended" due to suspicion of "potential fraudulent activity" and no rebooking would be possible. Advised me to call Expedia.
- Expedia informed me refund is still in process, disclaimed any knowledge of a "suspension", and advised that no rebooking would be possible until they hear back from Swiss re: the refund, either in the affirmative or negative.
- Meanwhile, FOCA (Swiss authorities) declined to pursue my case because the itinerary originates in France. Forwarded the case to French counterparts.
- DGAC (French authorities) sent a generic e-mail advising that "The DGAC does not provide individual follow-up to the reports sent to it. The action of the DGAC is also independent of the resolution of individual requests for compensation and reimbursement from airlines." (excuse the Google translation.)
- Contacted two lawyers who have both declined to take up my case.
PS: Most perversely, I have another P fare intercontinental trip (OSL-ZRH-BKK) booked with Swiss in September. I don't even want to think about how to handle that one. (The above was for a CDG-ZRH-GRU-EZE P fare trip in April.)
Jun 4, 2020, 12:15 pm
#492
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,188
Heard back from Dr. Böse. Unfortunately can't help me because none of my segments touch Germany.
To summarize, here's where I'm at:
PS: Most perversely, I have another P fare intercontinental trip (OSL-ZRH-BKK) booked with Swiss in September. I don't even want to think about how to handle that one. (The above was for a CDG-ZRH-GRU-EZE P fare trip in April.)
To summarize, here's where I'm at:
- Swiss (operating carrier), after my insistence upon my EC261 rights, acknowledged on the phone I'm eligible for a refund but refused to put anything in writing to me. Told me a note has been made in my file so the OTA I purchased the ticket from should be able to submit a refund request.
- Expedia (OTA) confirmed my refund request was submitted on April 7 but I have not seen any $. Tired of waiting, I filed a merchant dispute through my credit card.
- Barclays (credit card issuer), granted and later reversed temporary credit after receiving documentation from LX convincing them I am not owed a refund because ticket is "non-refundable". Ready to throw in the towel on getting a refund, I called Swiss prepared to rebook to a future date.
- Swiss informed me ticket has been "suspended" due to suspicion of "potential fraudulent activity" and no rebooking would be possible. Advised me to call Expedia.
- Expedia informed me refund is still in process, disclaimed any knowledge of a "suspension", and advised that no rebooking would be possible until they hear back from Swiss re: the refund, either in the affirmative or negative.
- Meanwhile, FOCA (Swiss authorities) declined to pursue my case because the itinerary originates in France. Forwarded the case to French counterparts.
- DGAC (French authorities) sent a generic e-mail advising that "The DGAC does not provide individual follow-up to the reports sent to it. The action of the DGAC is also independent of the resolution of individual requests for compensation and reimbursement from airlines." (excuse the Google translation.)
- Contacted two lawyers who have both declined to take up my case.
PS: Most perversely, I have another P fare intercontinental trip (OSL-ZRH-BKK) booked with Swiss in September. I don't even want to think about how to handle that one. (The above was for a CDG-ZRH-GRU-EZE P fare trip in April.)
If I understood correctly, Expedia claims to be waiting for feedback from LX on your case. I would wait patiently for a few days, contact them again about it and escalate the matter to a supervisor if necessary. If they do not manage to be of help, I would re-initiate the dispute process with your credit card provider in light of the fact that the service you paid for has never been provided by the merchant. If they deny your claim again, I am positive that you will be able to find a lawyer in France or Brazil (the two relevant jurisdictions in your itinerary) who will take your case.
You most definitely have not lost the right to your money, and you shouldn't let your emotions get the best of you while you take the necessary steps to recover it.
Jun 4, 2020, 1:38 pm
#494
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
It seems to me that you need take a deep breath and re-evaluate your options calmly and pragmatically.
If I understood correctly, Expedia claims to be waiting for feedback from LX on your case. I would wait patiently for a few days, contact them again about it and escalate the matter to a supervisor if necessary. If they do not manage to be of help, I would re-initiate the dispute process with your credit card provider in light of the fact that the service you paid for has never been provided by the merchant. If they deny your claim again, I am positive that you will be able to find a lawyer in France or Brazil (the two relevant jurisdictions in your itinerary) who will take your case.
You most definitely have not lost the right to your money, and you shouldn't let your emotions get the best of you while you take the necessary steps to recover it.
If I understood correctly, Expedia claims to be waiting for feedback from LX on your case. I would wait patiently for a few days, contact them again about it and escalate the matter to a supervisor if necessary. If they do not manage to be of help, I would re-initiate the dispute process with your credit card provider in light of the fact that the service you paid for has never been provided by the merchant. If they deny your claim again, I am positive that you will be able to find a lawyer in France or Brazil (the two relevant jurisdictions in your itinerary) who will take your case.
You most definitely have not lost the right to your money, and you shouldn't let your emotions get the best of you while you take the necessary steps to recover it.
Anyways, at this point, I really have no choice but to wait, but I really don't understand why they are doing this. Hasn't the government aid been approved now? Sigh...
Jun 4, 2020, 1:53 pm
#495
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 4,783
Barclays (credit card issuer), granted and later reversed temporary credit after receiving documentation from LX convincing them I am not owed a refund because ticket is "non-refundable". Ready to throw in the towel on getting a refund, I called Swiss prepared to rebook to a future date.