Covid19: Swiss refunds after cancellation

Old May 25, 20, 5:15 am
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There are many reports now of chargebacks being refused by credit card issuers. This going to get properly messy!
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Old May 25, 20, 5:28 am
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Originally Posted by Carpacchio View Post
Swiss has once again changed their website:
while it stated clearly before, that you can also have a refund in case of a cancelled flight (but please do not call now, as we need to serve customers that have flights in the next 3 days), this information is now gone and only vouchers and rebookings are mentioned.

Does anyone still have a screenshot of the previous info ? I am asking since I still have a about 5 cancelled trips for which i wanted refunds, but I haven't called in yet due to the info on the webpage.
MY email from today from Brussels specifically mentioned refunds in the email, saying: If you cannot travel in the future, please be advised that due to the high number of requests caused by the crisis, refunds may not be processed in the usual timeframe.

Surely regardless of what webpage says, if the email you got says something similar, it would be fine? That clearly says refunds are fine, but it will take longer.

Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
There are many reports now of chargebacks being refused by credit card issuers. This going to get properly messy!
Yes. As I said above, it makes me nervous for my chargebacks in process. But surely if they have already promised a refund and someone does a chargeback because it was taking weeks and weeks (like I have done with several transactions and flights), the refund will still come even if the chargeback is rejected, but just on their (very, very long) timescale?
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Old May 25, 20, 5:56 am
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Originally Posted by Carpacchio View Post
Swiss has once again changed their website:
while it stated clearly before, that you can also have a refund in case of a cancelled flight (but please do not call now, as we need to serve customers that have flights in the next 3 days), this information is now gone and only vouchers and rebookings are mentioned.

Does anyone still have a screenshot of the previous info ? I am asking since I still have a about 5 cancelled trips for which i wanted refunds, but I haven't called in yet due to the info on the webpage.
PM me i had PDF screenshot of this saying refund is possibel
Just dont expect too much! This has turned into a boozeup in a brewery
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Old May 25, 20, 6:05 am
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Originally Posted by Dan1113 View Post
Surely regardless of what webpage says, if the email you got says something similar, it would be fine? That clearly says refunds are fine, but it will take longer.

Yes. As I said above, it makes me nervous for my chargebacks in process. But surely if they have already promised a refund and someone does a chargeback because it was taking weeks and weeks (like I have done with several transactions and flights), the refund will still come even if the chargeback is rejected, but just on their (very, very long) timescale?
Yes, you will get the refund eventually. But by now credit card issuers are refusing to accelerate the refund by granting the chargebacks, i.e. you can no longer circumvent the (too) long waiting times for the refund to be processed.
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Old May 25, 20, 6:33 am
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Just had my charge-back rejected today with the money initially refunded reapplied to my account again.

Contacted AMEX and was told that Swiss is not disputing the fact that the flight was cancelled but still the dispute was closed. They are sending me the documentation (including Swiss response) in the post so I will take it from there. The agent said in chat today:
"Since this has become a global issue, almost all establishments are extending their helping hands to make sure there is minimal impact to their users and their customers. Right now I would advise you to please discuss this with the Flight service provider to see how they can help you in overcoming this situation"

I find it interesting that AMEX initially (when I raised dispute) did not ask for any documentation.

I suppose I will have to send all documentation and request a chargeback of the representment.

I am so annoyed, BA refunded canx flights within 3 working days, Air Serbia 6, easyJet 9, still waiting for Ryanair.
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Old May 25, 20, 9:01 am
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Originally Posted by lehovec View Post
Just had my charge-back rejected today with the money initially refunded reapplied to my account again.

Contacted AMEX and was told that Swiss is not disputing the fact that the flight was cancelled but still the dispute was closed. They are sending me the documentation (including Swiss response) in the post so I will take it from there. The agent said in chat today:
"Since this has become a global issue, almost all establishments are extending their helping hands to make sure there is minimal impact to their users and their customers. Right now I would advise you to please discuss this with the Flight service provider to see how they can help you in overcoming this situation"

I find it interesting that AMEX initially (when I raised dispute) did not ask for any documentation.

I suppose I will have to send all documentation and request a chargeback of the representment.

I am so annoyed, BA refunded canx flights within 3 working days, Air Serbia 6, easyJet 9, still waiting for Ryanair.
Do these flights touch US soil? If yes, filing a complaint to the DOT will support your chargeback claim, as the airline is obliged to reply to their inquiry and has no choice but to say it will process the cash refund.

FWIW​, I would personally cancel that credit card if I were you. The 500+ USD yearly fee is supposed to buy you superior consumer protection and customer service. It seems to me that Amex delivered none.
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Old May 25, 20, 9:18 am
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Originally Posted by lehovec View Post
"Since this has become a global issue, almost all establishments are extending their helping hands to make sure there is minimal impact to their users and their customers. Right now I would advise you to please discuss this with the Flight service provider to see how they can help you in overcoming this situation"
Wow. So many words to say precisely: "Speak to the airline." To which you would have said "I already did."

But I understand chargebacks across the board are getting a lot of pushbacks.
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Old May 25, 20, 10:17 am
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Just had my charge-back rejected today with the money initially refunded reapplied to my account again.
I would just refuse to pay that balance. If you inform the card issuer beforehand (noting down the reasons: paying for a cancelled flight) about your refusal, your card issuer is not allowed to downgrade your credit rating. I doubt that Amex will test its position in a court of law.

What game is Swiss playing here: I assume this comes from the very top: Carsten Spohr.
Lufthansa is still using the bargaining chip of applying for bankcruptcy protection (Schutzschirmverfahren). Lufthansa is still negotiating with the German government and Lufthansa want to keep the threat of a Schutzschirmverfahren alive.
However, in order to get a Schutzschirmverfahren going, Lufthansa must have cash in the banks, otherwise such a Schutzschirmverfahren is not going to be approved. That's why all Lufthansa Group airlines have been instructed to fight chargebacks very hard.
Again, Lufthansa is using our ticket money for their political games.

-> What is my conclusion: For business travel in the future -> I will only choose to book a Lufthansa Group airline ticket if there is no way to avoid it. And I would try to convince my business partner or colleagues to hold the meeting via webex instead. "Do you guys want to to loose even more money to Lufthansa?"

For leisure travel -> If there is no alternative to a Lufthansa Group airline, I will just reschedule the leisure travel or spend the money on something else. Esp. for leisure travel, I would only book last-minute deals and if there are no last-minute deals, then there won't be any travel.

Last edited by warakorn; May 25, 20 at 10:22 am
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Old May 25, 20, 11:55 am
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Re-submit any UK credit card claims as Section 75. I realise that's not an option with the Amex Charge cards. The experience should remind you of the worth of an expensive charge card, Platinum being not much change from Ł600, versus booking it on a basic credit card that every Tom, Dick & Harry as.
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Old May 25, 20, 3:40 pm
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Originally Posted by warakorn View Post
I would just refuse to pay that balance. If you inform the card issuer beforehand (noting down the reasons: paying for a cancelled flight) about your refusal, your card issuer is not allowed to downgrade your credit rating. I doubt that Amex will test its position in a court of law.
Wow, poor advice! Who do you think will win that battle when AMEX commences debt collection - AFTER downgrading the credit rating? There is no way the OP can refuse to pay what is owed to AMEX on the grounds that the OP believes himself entitled to a chargeback. AMEX can easily refer the OP to take this up with LX instead (and demand the OP to pay what is owed to AMEX).
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Old May 25, 20, 3:55 pm
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Wow, poor advice! Who do you think will win that battle when AMEX commences debt collection - AFTER downgrading the credit rating?
Not poor advise!
AMEX may start debt collection. It means nothing. AMEX does not have special powers. It is a private entity.
At least in the EU the cardholder can dispute the claim - and then it is practically forbidden for the bank to downgrade the credit rating - unless the bank receives a court verdict and the cardholder is not paying after that verdict for 4 weeks.

There is no way the OP can refuse to pay what is owed to AMEX on the grounds that the OP believes himself entitled to a chargeback.
There is an airline, which did not run the flight - and which is obliged to refund the flight costs within 7 days - the airline is presenting bogus evidence to fight the chargeback - - and Amex has already initiated a chargeback.
Again, I do not believe that Amex will be very interested in contesting this in a court of law.
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Old May 26, 20, 6:42 am
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Amex have a responsibility to cardholder and merchants alike.

If Swiss validly justify a chargeback claim as being invalid then the representation is correct.

However, in the case of a merchant representing a charge for a service they have already acknowledged they must refund, then not only should Amex reject that excuse, they should sanction their merchant.

I believe this action would make Amex liable for any consequential costs or damages relating to the refusal to process the chargeback of the representation.

My chargeback has not yet been negated, but if that becomes the case I will most definitely go up against the organisation who’s card I have trusted for over 35 years. I trust in them to uphold my rights, not to protect a merchant’s cashflow.
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Old May 26, 20, 7:04 am
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Contacted AMEX today to request a chargeback of the representment. Spoke to a really nice agent who actually took her time and looked into it properly.
The reason AMEX reapplied charge was due to the fact that "
"The ticket is non refundable. Merchant has offered alternatives as rebooking of the ticket or the travel voucher."
I am disgusted by Swiss, not only did they say to me on the phone "Yes, no problem, you are in the queue but we are not processing refunds at the moment" but they also lied to AMEX as the flight was actually cancelled, there have been no flight to my destination (LJU) since March and there are still no flights there until the end of June.

AMEX has now reopened the dispute for me to submit the documentation, Lets see what happens now.
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Old May 26, 20, 7:17 am
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Originally Posted by warakorn View Post
but then Amex has to sue the cardholder ... I dont think they will do so for a cancelled flight.
They don't need to sue. They ask you nicely a few times, then they send a debt collector after you.
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Old May 26, 20, 9:08 am
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They don't need to sue. They ask you nicely a few times, then they send a debt collector after you.
I guess, you haven't really read my previous statement.
So Amex is sending a debt collector against the cardholder - so what? A debt collector is just a private person/firm. They have no special privileges (they cannot seize your bank account, enter your home, downgrade your credit rating) - at least in a country like the UK or Germany.
@LondonElite: Please tell me - why should anyone be afraid of a debt collector? Without a court title/writ -> the debt collector is powerless. And without a lawsuit, such a debt collector is not able to obtain a court title/writ.

If there are EUR 5000 on the line, I would not hesitate the dispute the claim from Amex in a written form - and then the debt collector is pretty much powerless., because I simply won't pay.
Again, I do not think that Amex is willing to test such a claim in a court of law.
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