Zimmerli pajamas closest to the LX F version?
Jan 28, 2020, 6:35 am
#91
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If I may weigh in from my textile experience: cotton is not 'finer' but the length of the fiber makes the difference. So the famed egytian cotton only differs from the run of the mill indian cotton in terms of fibre length. Shorter fibres feel rough to the touch.
BUT
None of this really matters since ALL cotton is chemically and physically treated to become wearable. Untreated cotton is nearly impossible to wear. The 'silkier texture' you noticed is a combination of better cotton and the magic of silicone chemistry. The technical term is 'soft hand'
One time use inflight PJs don't require the permanence of finish like a atrociously expensive PJ that you will wash at least 50-100 times. That said the cotton probably costs 5€ more and the chemicals 10 cent. 
BUT
None of this really matters since ALL cotton is chemically and physically treated to become wearable. Untreated cotton is nearly impossible to wear. The 'silkier texture' you noticed is a combination of better cotton and the magic of silicone chemistry. The technical term is 'soft hand'
One time use inflight PJs don't require the permanence of finish like a atrociously expensive PJ that you will wash at least 50-100 times. That said the cotton probably costs 5€ more and the chemicals 10 cent.
Jan 28, 2020, 7:19 am
#92
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If I may weigh in from my textile experience: cotton is not 'finer' but the length of the fiber makes the difference. So the famed egytian cotton only differs from the run of the mill indian cotton in terms of fibre length. Shorter fibres feel rough to the touch.
BUT
None of this really matters since ALL cotton is chemically and physically treated to become wearable. Untreated cotton is nearly impossible to wear. The 'silkier texture' you noticed is a combination of better cotton and the magic of silicone chemistry. The technical term is 'soft hand' One time use inflight PJs don't require the permanence of finish like a atrociously expensive PJ that you will wash at least 50-100 times. That said the cotton probably costs 5€ more and the chemicals 10 cent.
BUT
None of this really matters since ALL cotton is chemically and physically treated to become wearable. Untreated cotton is nearly impossible to wear. The 'silkier texture' you noticed is a combination of better cotton and the magic of silicone chemistry. The technical term is 'soft hand'
One time use inflight PJs don't require the permanence of finish like a atrociously expensive PJ that you will wash at least 50-100 times. That said the cotton probably costs 5€ more and the chemicals 10 cent. I was being generous with my 128k PJs estimate above, and agree the number is probably far higher. Let's say it's 240k PJs produced every year (probably again still too low). I doubt there's a way to do this with positive unit economics at scale with Zimmerli quality.
Jan 28, 2020, 7:23 am
#93
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Jan 28, 2020, 7:35 am
#94
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Oliver I feel like you have all people would have known the true provenance of these PJs. If you don't, then we are truly lost :-)
I was being generous with my 128k PJs estimate above, and agree the number is probably far higher. Let's say it's 240k PJs produced every year (probably again still too low). I doubt there's a way to do this with positive unit economics at scale with Zimmerli quality.
I was being generous with my 128k PJs estimate above, and agree the number is probably far higher. Let's say it's 240k PJs produced every year (probably again still too low). I doubt there's a way to do this with positive unit economics at scale with Zimmerli quality.
As mentioned somewhere above I have my Blue Lemons which compared to the LX F ones are much smoother, quite similar to the ones in your picture actually (just with pattern). I think you described it quite accurately.
I think your estimate is a bit high. Swiss has 26(?) daily flights with F out of ZRH, times two as we also want to count the arriving F flights as well. With a load of 100% in F that would make 26x2x8x365 PJs needed = 151840 per year.
If we go with a more accurate 75% load factor that makes 113'880, so your original estimate is actually quite close. Loading more PJs than needed should have no effect as the usage rate should approx. equal the production rate. If not they'd either run out or just stockpile more and more every year
Jan 28, 2020, 7:42 am
#95
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I've done some more digging:
Zimmerli states it takes between 30 minutes ( for a shirt) up to 50 minutes (for complex parts) to be produced.
They also state they are only 52 so people working there.
Let's take an average of 40 minutes per piece, so 80 minutes per PJ. We'll say each worker works 8 hours and 300 days per year.
In total that would make Zimmerli produce 93'600 PJs per year, which is probably less than LX needs. I guess this answers our question.
Zimmerli states it takes between 30 minutes ( for a shirt) up to 50 minutes (for complex parts) to be produced.
They also state they are only 52 so people working there.
Let's take an average of 40 minutes per piece, so 80 minutes per PJ. We'll say each worker works 8 hours and 300 days per year.
In total that would make Zimmerli produce 93'600 PJs per year, which is probably less than LX needs. I guess this answers our question.
Jan 28, 2020, 8:30 am
#96
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Yes!!!
This is for sure one thread that wont put anyone "to sleep" ;-) Love Flyertalk!
Jan 28, 2020, 8:34 am
#97
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I do want to add, for the sake of intellectual honesty (which is something I value greatly), that if she had unequivocally said they were handmade in Switzerland by Zimmerli I would have said that here. She didn’t seem terribly impressed by the Swiss PJs, although again in fairness I had worn them the previous night and they’ve been in the wash a few times.
I just bought an aviator nation sweater. The brand claims that its products are made in LA. I checked the tag which states "made in USA". This makes sense to me.
Finally, I flew yesterday on LX F. There where 2 persons in pjs (on a dayflight). On had the LX F pj that he had just received and another passenger was wearing a silky pj similar to those Zim sells in its stores. While I do not wish to appear as a puritan, it struck me that I found the silky pj is too personal to be used in a common dormitory, and this may be the reason for LX/Zim to offer a different product.
Jan 28, 2020, 9:08 am
#98
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I have silk PJs but agreed wholly inappropriate for wearing on a flight. Although the FAs told me stories of people changing at their seats, including women. And. They. Could. See. Everything.
I think some here think I would be upset if proven wrong. But that couldn’t be further from the truth. I love getting free stuff. And if I learn that some of that free stuff is worth something, I’m exhilarated.
But I don’t think the Swiss PJs are.
If you’ve ever eaten at Eleven Madison Park, you’ll know at the end of the meal they gift you a glass jar of granola. I have that jar but filled to the brim with La Prairie lip moisturizers :-D
I think some here think I would be upset if proven wrong. But that couldn’t be further from the truth. I love getting free stuff. And if I learn that some of that free stuff is worth something, I’m exhilarated.
But I don’t think the Swiss PJs are.
If you’ve ever eaten at Eleven Madison Park, you’ll know at the end of the meal they gift you a glass jar of granola. I have that jar but filled to the brim with La Prairie lip moisturizers :-D
Jan 28, 2020, 10:02 am
#99
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For some reason this always seems to happen on flights to and from NA...
The horror... the horror...
I do agree on the nice quality of the lip moisturizers and always gladly receive them. I think that this shows that even when only the name of la prairie is being used, and the products might actually be outsourced, that this isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Jan 28, 2020, 10:14 am
#100
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Jan 28, 2020, 10:54 am
#101
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As a woman of my word, I ventured down Rue St. Honore this morning to get answers to some of the questions man has asked since the beginning of time.
I went to the Zimmerli boutique, Swiss F PJs in a small bag, and asked what are the closest PJs in their collection to this.
1) Obviously, the same PJs would be ideal. But they said they didn't sell them and that they are not part of the collection, so I can't buy them from the store.
2) I, again obviously, asked if Zimmerli manufactures the Swiss PJs. The very helpful saleslady said "yes," and then backtracked, and said they were "branded as Zimmerli." She said they're probably not made in Switzerland, but most likely in Italy. Honestly, her response didn't inspire confidence in either direction, so no point in unpacking further what she meant and whether that really means Zimmerli makes it.
3) The closest PJ they have is the navy set below. The, again very helpful, saleslady said that the quality in these PJs is far superior (she used the word "ciel," which I've never heard of before), whereas the Swiss PJs are made from "basic cotton." To the touch, the cotton here was obviously finer, and silkier to the touch. I almost thought it was some poly-blend--that's how smooth it was. I also thought it might have been sateen, which is a satin weave used in cotton to give a silkier texture. She assured me that the cotton is simply better. It was difficult to tell from the touch if it was better because it was literally off the shelf and had never been worn nor washed. And I think comparing them to the Swiss PJs was not apples-to-apples because the Swiss ones have been through the wash. They were frankly a bit ratty, which was embarrassing for me, but whatever. She assured me that the quality was far superior, and to be honest there is no way these PJs or any version of these are the Swiss PJs. She also said they don't actually sell the basic cotton that the Swiss PJs are made of.
4) There are some key differences here. Namely, there's no drawstring or any tightener or fastener of any type either on the bottoms or the tops. The bottoms are elasticated at the waist. And both items have an interior trim that's neon green. Also there's a stitching detail in the pocket that's not in the Swiss PJ.
5) Aside from the color being navy blue, these PJs were not that similar to the Swiss PJs, although this is all they have in the collection that's even navy (aside from a short-sleeved version of the top). I asked her if any PJ bottoms in their collection have drawstrings, and she said only the shorts.
Pictures below are pix of: PJs, price tag with style codes so you can find on your own (EUR 400 is the price BTW), interior label. Hope this helps.
I went to the Zimmerli boutique, Swiss F PJs in a small bag, and asked what are the closest PJs in their collection to this.
1) Obviously, the same PJs would be ideal. But they said they didn't sell them and that they are not part of the collection, so I can't buy them from the store.
2) I, again obviously, asked if Zimmerli manufactures the Swiss PJs. The very helpful saleslady said "yes," and then backtracked, and said they were "branded as Zimmerli." She said they're probably not made in Switzerland, but most likely in Italy. Honestly, her response didn't inspire confidence in either direction, so no point in unpacking further what she meant and whether that really means Zimmerli makes it.
3) The closest PJ they have is the navy set below. The, again very helpful, saleslady said that the quality in these PJs is far superior (she used the word "ciel," which I've never heard of before), whereas the Swiss PJs are made from "basic cotton." To the touch, the cotton here was obviously finer, and silkier to the touch. I almost thought it was some poly-blend--that's how smooth it was. I also thought it might have been sateen, which is a satin weave used in cotton to give a silkier texture. She assured me that the cotton is simply better. It was difficult to tell from the touch if it was better because it was literally off the shelf and had never been worn nor washed. And I think comparing them to the Swiss PJs was not apples-to-apples because the Swiss ones have been through the wash. They were frankly a bit ratty, which was embarrassing for me, but whatever. She assured me that the quality was far superior, and to be honest there is no way these PJs or any version of these are the Swiss PJs. She also said they don't actually sell the basic cotton that the Swiss PJs are made of.
4) There are some key differences here. Namely, there's no drawstring or any tightener or fastener of any type either on the bottoms or the tops. The bottoms are elasticated at the waist. And both items have an interior trim that's neon green. Also there's a stitching detail in the pocket that's not in the Swiss PJ.
5) Aside from the color being navy blue, these PJs were not that similar to the Swiss PJs, although this is all they have in the collection that's even navy (aside from a short-sleeved version of the top). I asked her if any PJ bottoms in their collection have drawstrings, and she said only the shorts.
Pictures below are pix of: PJs, price tag with style codes so you can find on your own (EUR 400 is the price BTW), interior label. Hope this helps.
Bob (the person who started this whole mess :-)
Jan 28, 2020, 12:18 pm
#102
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Jan 28, 2020, 3:28 pm
#103
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I still think of this behaviour as quite degenerative, especially since the whole cabin is more often than not unwillingly witnessing it.